Welfare support and drug testing

[mashman]

And then you cose with the same old excuse that always come up, piss is worse than pot. Guess what Einstein, the whole thread is about spending tax payer money on drugs. Not what you think the worse of two evils are, which is totally irrelevant.

Your right. It's about those receiving tax payers money deciding what they wish to spend it on. I spent 6 years in a place in Glasgow, now removed from the face of the planet, and these people aren't stupid by any means, there's some amongst them who were relatively well off and "saw the light", not all took drugs (more booze) by any means and that wasn't through lack of cash either. If they're buying booze with their benefit then buying weed is from the same expenditure. You brought up Amsterdam and its problems and I said they were, in my observations, caused mainly by those on the piss... that was the only equating of drugs v booze I made, so you started it

As I said before, I've changed my mind, I can't wait for the bill to go through... then I'll sit back and watch you Einsteins moan and whinge about those who have been cut off committing crimes and adding 80k per person to the tax bill when they end up inside. Not doubt a few folk will get hurt along the way, but it'll be worth it eh

[Ocean1]

then I'll sit back and watch you Einsteins moan and whinge about those who have been cut off committing crimes and adding 80k per person to the tax bill when they end up inside.

Pay someone $80K to not steal from me?

Don't think a few rounds of 12swg costs that much, does it?

[mashman]

employed card is not good enough. it needs to show that you actually has paid tax.
after all we are being sold this little programme to prevent abuse of taxpayers money.

so the card one needs to buy alcohol, any type of entertainment, fatty foods, and cigarettes is a "has paid tax" card.

No. Still not good enough. You must be able to prove that you have been a net tax contributor for the last year.

[skippa1]

Before any money gets spend on treating all "welfare recipients" as criminals, I would like to finally see some programme propoesed by the current government that actually generates jobs with livable wages. That would actually reduce the number of welfare dependents.

Seriously are we so full of envy and discontent that some schmuck from the government can sell us our neighbors, family members, colleagues etc as drug abusing criminals that need to be tested before they can apply for a benefit, should they need help?

What a sorry state of the nation.

Sorry but that doesnt wash. We are advertising overseas to employ up to 25-30,000 staff required for the Chch rebuild and our own countrymen cant pass a drug test to fill the vacancies. Theoretically we shouldnt have any unemployed.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indu...e-to-fill-jobs
we complain about immigration and immigrants, they end up buying businesses, thriving and making their families wealthy.......

[mashman]

Pay someone $80K to not steal from me?

Don't think a few rounds of 12swg costs that much, does it?

heh... not at all, just leave things the way they are and dodge that bullet.

No doubt some would be deserving of such treatment, in fact someone once mentioned that shooting the exceptionally rich would free up more % than shooting 1000 bene's and there's already too many chiefs... no doubt that'll be seen as jealousy by some, coz dey is tick, but it's business mate, not personal. Your plan has merit

[Brian d marge]

Cant you see through the bull, demonize one group makes another group feel good
Been done a few times before
Wonder what they are trying to sneak through with out the great unwashed getting bent out of shape

Viva the revolution ..I cant wait

Stephen

[Ocean1]

Your plan has merit

It's not a plan.

It's full blown operational policy hereabouts.

[skippa1]

As I said before, I've changed my mind, I can't wait for the bill to go through... then I'll sit back and watch you Einsteins moan and whinge about those who have been cut off committing crimes and adding 80k per person to the tax bill when they end up inside. Not doubt a few folk will get hurt along the way, but it'll be worth it eh

you fix your bike when its broken? how about your car? If you have a broken arm you get it fixed. If you do what you always do, you get what youve always got..........what about proactively securing a future for the country instead of justifying the behaviour of leaches?

I wonder, if a stoner arrived at your house every week with his hand out for the tax that you pay and does it every week, then he goes and spends it getting out of it while you work............would you start to resent him for coimng around and taking your money after a while? Are you seriousy telling me you would be happy with that and justifying it because you were concerned about what he might do if you stop giving him the money?

[bogan]

Before any money gets spend on treating all "welfare recipients" as criminals, I would like to finally see some programme propoesed by the current government that actually generates jobs with livable wages. That would actually reduce the number of welfare dependents.

Seriously are we so full of envy and discontent that some schmuck from the government can sell us our neighbors, family members, colleagues etc as drug abusing criminals that need to be tested before they can apply for a benefit, should they need help?

What a sorry state of the nation.

Exactly, it must be tackled from both ends, stop the number of new dole recipients, but also create the environment to allow and encourage existing recipients to get work. Doesn't matter how big a stick is used, a square peg isn't going to fit in a round hole!

What are the penalties for failing an employment drug test anyway? Is there a fine? If it is just that they don't get the job, this plan is laughably stupid.

[ducatilover]

actually, I agree entirely. There are some luxuries that should be excluded for those getting tax payer funded help. In actual fact, I think that the dole is not high enough to help when you consider that $160/wk isnt going to cover rent let alone food etc. If there were less people abusing the system we could raise the available allowance for the genuine needy.

I cannot fathom how one can afford drugs in any "reasonable" amount on $160p/w.

[blue rider]

Sorry but that doesnt wash. We are advertising overseas to employ up to 25-30,000 staff required for the Chch rebuild and our own countrymen cant pass a drug test to fill the vacancies. Theoretically we shouldnt have any unemployed.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indu...e-to-fill-jobs
we complain about immigration and immigrants, they end up buying businesses, thriving and making their families wealthy.......

have had a look at the article you linked to and low and behold

'The problem is that the skills gaps in New Zealand are very similar to the rest of the world - engineers and skilled tradespeople are in demand everywhere, so competition from the international market is also a factor,'' he said.

Difficulty in finding IT staff had also increased as the National Broadband Network was rolled out around the country.

Employers who continued to struggle with skills shortages may need to review their job criteria and look for a 'teachable fit' - that is, candidates who meet most criteria but need further training - or consider unbundling job roles so that highly skilled employees only undertake technical tasks, Crawley said.



this lack of talented and skilled people is not due to the fact that our talented and skilled are buggering off overseas in order to make a coin or two, because in this country they will hardly make enough to pay rent, food, student loan etc.

this lack of employable people has nothing to do with the fact that we expect people to go into debt to learn a trade and then hope they stay for the minimum wage +5 $, yea tui.

we have to decide as a nation if we want to go down the low wage 3rd world bucket or if we want something better.

businesses must take the risk and train young ones again, instead of burdening our young generation with a loan they need 10 years to pay back.
businesses must train and up skill their their staff instead of hiring and firing willy nilly in the relentless pursuit of a penny saved.

once businesses and government actually does something for the skilled and trained they might stay in NZ instead of running all the way to England/Oz/Canada or Asia to make a living.
But it appears that businesses in this time and age want skilled trained and cheap labour, and if they can't get it they whinge...! in the meantime New Zealanders who are working for a living, are paying tax, but need help to make end meets because all the fixed costs have gone up again, will have to get drug tested before they can get a housing benefit, or a heating benefit ...or some such thing.
And the recent un-employed that have faithfully paid tax, so that a social net is there should they need help, will have to get drug tested.
The young couple with kids, that need help with living expenses, leave your blood over there or else no help.

so full of awesomeness, i am slayed, and have run out of vocabulary....also.

[skippa1]

Before any money gets spend on treating all "welfare recipients" as criminals, I would like to finally see some programme propoesed by the current government that actually generates jobs with livable wages. That would actually reduce the number of welfare dependents.

Seriously are we so full of envy and discontent that some schmuck from the government can sell us our neighbors, family members, colleagues etc as drug abusing criminals that need to be tested before they can apply for a benefit, should they need help?

What a sorry state of the nation.

They had an earthquke in Christchurch and need between 25-30,000 extra workers. They pay more than the minimum wage which is more than the dole.

[bogan]

They had an earthquke in Christchurch and need between 25-30,000 extra workers. They pay more than the minimum wage which is more than the dole.

Not everyone has the skills, or lack of family commitments to make that option possible.

[mashman]

It's not a plan.

It's full blown operational policy hereabouts.

What are the rules?

you fix your bike when its broken? how about your car? If you have a broken arm you get it fixed. If you do what you always do, you get what youve always got..........what about proactively securing a future for the country instead of justifying the behaviour of leaches?

I wonder, if a stoner arrived at your house every week with his hand out for the tax that you pay and does it every week, then he goes and spends it getting out of it while you work............would you start to resent him for coimng around and taking your money after a while? Are you seriousy telling me you would be happy with that and justifying it because you were concerned about what he might do if you stop giving him the money?

I try to. I try to. I would indeed. I agree, to a degree, if nothing changes, nothing changes. I'm trying to do both and not all are leeches.

If the govt says it's ok for me to give my tax to a stoner, then sure, why not, tis what happens at the moment and I'm more than happy with it, in fact they should be paid more for the service they provide for you re: helping to keep inflation down and your $ worth the value it's worth. It's my choice to work. I work so that my kids can do stuff, netball, TKW, piano, get pressies for their mates on their birthdays etc... Where did extortion come into it? Anyhoo, I'd kill the person, if I thought I could get away with it, if he tried that on, stoner or not. Again, why would I resent giving someone a wedge of money that I'm already giving to another entity? If it's 10k a year and I get to keep the rest of my tax, send another few people around for the other 40/50k (year dependent). That and I wouldn't have to go out and score some blow as it would be brought to my doorstep.

[skippa1]

have had a look at the article you linked to and low and behold



businesses must take the risk and train young ones again, instead of burdening our young generation with a loan they need 10 years to pay back.
businesses must train and up skill their their staff instead of hiring and firing willy nilly in the relentless pursuit of a penny saved.

once businesses and government actually does something for the skilled and trained they might stay in NZ instead of running all the way to England/Oz/Canada or Asia to make a living.
But it appears that businesses in this time and age want skilled trained and cheap labour, and if they can't get it they whinge...! in the meantime New Zealanders who are working for a living, are paying tax, but need help to make end meets because all the fixed costs have gone up again, will have to get drug tested before they can get a housing benefit, or a heating benefit ...or some such thing.
And the recent un-employed that have faithfully paid tax, so that a social net is there should they need help, will have to get drug tested.
The young couple with kids, that need help with living expenses, leave your blood over there or else no help.

so full of awesomeness, i am slayed, and have run out of vocabulary....also.

thats one side of the coin, the other is the business side. I have tried to find drug free staff to carry out work on a permanant basis and I simply cant get a person that is unemployed and on a benefit to pass a drug test. I cant put people that are a risk in our business as they would pose a risk to the public. WINZ simply cannot send a person my way that can pass that test. I dont want trained or skilled labour, I would settle for straight. I would like nothing better than long term reliable staff.
Why the fuck shouldnt they be expected to be straight and ready for work?