Toke up and keep your job

[HenryDorsetCase]

Good point but most employment agreements do not have that requirement.

It's argued that random drug testing in many types of jobs is an invasion of privacy and not "good faith". A worker in a supermarket or The Warehouse isn't likely to be doing a job which presents a danger to others so why should they be randomly drug tested?

Whatever, the trade unions argue vigorously against random drug testing and so far their position has been upheld. The exceptions are jobs involving driving, public transport etc, police medical machine operators scaffolders etc etc etc. This particular case is an example where it should have been available.

So yes there are jobs where drug testing (but not necessarily random) is accepted but most jobs - NO.

I concur with my learned friend

[tigertim20]

Good point but most employment agreements do not have that requirement.

It's argued that random drug testing in many types of jobs is an invasion of privacy and not "good faith". A worker in a supermarket or The Warehouse isn't likely to be doing a job which presents a danger to others so why should they be randomly drug tested?

Whatever, the trade unions argue vigorously against random drug testing and so far their position has been upheld. The exceptions are jobs involving driving, public transport etc, police medical machine operators scaffolders etc etc etc. This particular case is an example where it should have been available.

So yes there are jobs where drug testing (but not necessarily random) is accepted but most jobs - NO.

Hmm. an interesting conundrum. I can see both sides - I will never refuse a drug test. but, Id probably flop it out and piss all over the boss' desk while laughing 'test this bitch!' if I was asked to do one, purely due to being offended at the request.

I guess the answer is that if employers feel their line of work is something where drug use could be, or cause, an issue, they could write wording into the contract like "... agrees to submit to a drug test at the request of the employer, if the employer believes he has reason to suspect drug or alcohol use in work hours" something where the employer has to state their reasoning specifically.

I dont care, i dont do the stuff, I dont turn up to work hammered and never will, Im enough of a cunt to people my job is probably on the brink 90% of the time anyway!

[puddytat]

talking about Train Drivers...

[Winston001]

[AllanB]

I've been drunk on KB a few times...........

[Akzle]

So lets give you a quick scenario... Pilot in charge of a 'vehicle' with maybe 400+ people on board, traveling at 120kph on landing, stoned out of his tree..... you're one of the passengers, do ya feel safe?

yes i do. if someone with the wherewithal to learn to fly commercial aircraft, decides that he is competent enough to do so after consuming weed, so be it.

I wouldn't want a pilot to be high while they're flying. I probably wouldn't want a surgeon to be high either, depending on how complicated or risky the procedure is and how well they can handle it.

again. being a surgeon is not the kind of job that WINZ is going to find you. it takes a fair bit of skill and a good mind, if that individual decides to consume weed, that doesn't concern me.

what about when the employee has signed a contract agreeing to 'random drug tests at the request of the employer'?

that would be an illegal contract and null and void. a private contract cannot supersede legislation.

while i agree with the sentiment, and an employer's rights to not want to/ employ people who do use drugs is fair enough., and to not be using them at work, most certainly.

that said. i've used and been witness to use (on the clock) in several industries, most notably/"dangerously" engineering and construction. total harm witnessed as a result of it, over ~ decade= exactly 0.

i dont think matt oconnel will be getting another job in the industry any time soon, he'll be eligible for the benny after 10 or 13 weeks (enough time to blow his payout/settlement) and thereafter no employer is going to want to touch the cunt, another fuckarse on welfare who doesn't need to be, just because pot is illegal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJpP7ZId-mc

[Big Dave]

I was talking to a well qualified pal. To whit:

There are 'checks and balances' in place to prevent poor schmucks from being taken advantage of by unscrupulous employers.

These laws clearly specify the steps necessary for an employer to (I'll be back) terminate.

No matter how egregious the offense the procedure has to be followed or the law will bite the employer's arse first.

To that end it may not be 'justice' but it is the law - and that's why good managers command the salary they do. They can exit a douche with finesse and no PG.

Even a manager in small business has to know the rules or it all starts at around $8k.

The alternative is returning to practices like hiring a star performer away from a competitor with only the intention of firing them and removing them from an industry - eg.

[Bikemad]

blah blah blah and how well they can handle it.

compared to what............how are you gonna measure that.........

[SMOKEU]

compared to what............how are you gonna measure that.........

Since you're clearly incapable of participating in a mature discussion I'm not going to dignify that with a response. You should also learn to spell properly if you want to be taken seriously.

[GrayWolf]

yes i do. if someone with the wherewithal to learn to fly commercial aircraft, decides that he is competent enough to do so after consuming weed, so be it.
again. being a surgeon is not the kind of job that WINZ is going to find you. it takes a fair bit of skill and a good mind, if that individual decides to consume weed, that doesn't concern me. Drug and alcohol use in pilots can have a detrimental impact on aviation safety. Important cognitive and psychomotor functions necessary for safe operation of an aircraft can be significantly impaired by drugs and alcohol.
http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/...60169_001.aspx

that would be an illegal contract and null and void. a private contract cannot supersede legislation. Sorry sonny, I work in 'heavy engineering/industry'.. even our Union has agreed to a random drug test policy... you can argue legislation all you want.. as soon as the words 'SAFETY CRITICAL' are uttered for a workplace? What you think is 'legislation', goes out the window.. trust me!!

while i agree with the sentiment, and an employer's rights to not want to/ employ people who do use drugs is fair enough., and to not be using them at work, most certainly.

that said. i've used and been witness to use (on the clock) in several industries, most notably/"dangerously" engineering and construction. total harm witnessed as a result of it, over ~ decade= exactly 0. BOllox it doesnt cause fatalities .... The FRA also found, after a review of accident investigation reports, that, from 1972 to 1983, the nation's railroads experienced at least 21 significant train accidents involving alcohol or drug use as a probable cause or contributing factor, and that these accidents resulted in 25 fatalities, 61 non-fatal injuries, and property damage estimated at $19 million (approximately $27 million in 1982 dollars)......
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/htm...9_0602_ZO.html

i dont think matt oconnel will be getting another job in the industry any time soon, he'll be eligible for the benny after 10 or 13 weeks (enough time to blow his payout/settlement) and thereafter no employer is going to want to touch the cunt, another fuckarse on welfare who doesn't need to be, just because pot is illegal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJpP7ZId-mc

Even if pot were legal.. in some jobs as pointed out by another poster, ANY incident results in operators being subjected to a 'statutory' drug/alcohol test being conducted.

[Akzle]

"...Drug and alcohol use in pilots can have a detrimental impact on aviation safety. Important cognitive and psychomotor functions necessary for safe operation of an aircraft can be significantly impaired by drugs and alcohol

...The FRA also found, after a review of accident investigation reports, that, from 1972 to 1983, the nation's railroads experienced at least 21 significant train accidents involving alcohol or drug use as a probable cause or contributing factor, "

here's my problem with these "statistics": particularly alcohol but also other drugs being used to taint the good name of cannabis.

i would say most regular users loose no cognitive function, motor-skills or ability to do complex /techincal shit. basically anything i can do "straight" i can do after a joint. the difference being that after a joint i'm going to do it quicker and enjoy it more, and if i do encounter problems i'm going to come up with solutions i otherwise might not have.

[Katman]

yes i do. if someone with the wherewithal to learn to fly commercial aircraft, decides that he is competent enough to do so after consuming weed, so be it.

How about doing a bungy jump at Rainbow's End with a stoned operator?

[Akzle]

How about doing a bungy jump at Rainbow's End with a stoned operator?

i'm not really into jumping off perfectly good structures, for any reason.
that said. i was with my cousins and their mates some years ago at gravity canyon having a toke with their guide pre-bungy-swing-flying-foxery.

i'm not sure if you need a qualification to throw people off bridges... but there was that girl who got pushed off sans-rope.. and the op wasn't even stoned. i reckon it's an inherently stupid thing to do.

abseiling on the other hand, i have and would do stoned, 300ft descents... only a few knots and small bits of steel between you and gravity induced internal hemorrhaging. numnum.


as far as rainbows end... that's auckland. south auckland.

i think i've made my point.

[SMOKEU]

i would say most regular users loose no cognitive function, motor-skills or ability to do complex /techincal shit. basically anything i can do "straight" i can do after a joint. the difference being that after a joint i'm going to do it quicker and enjoy it more, and if i do encounter problems i'm going to come up with solutions i otherwise might not have.
[/COLOR]

Finally, someone who speaks sense.

[Big Dave]

Finally, someone who speaks sense.

There were others - but they forgot.