Toke up and keep your job

[SMOKEU]

I could out smoke the smokeist smokers with the best of ya. In fact my old song went something like,
Roll roll roll a joint
Gently twist the ends
Light it up and take a toke
And pass it to your friends

And I was fuckin awesome at doing stuff.....I could do your stuff better than you could, in fact I was the best at doing stuff when I got really toasted.
Funny thing though.....I wouldnt be where I am, and I am somewhere worth while, until I woke up and gave up. And all that stuff that I was doing really awesome, I wasnt doing so well I found out, and some stuff I struggled with, ended up being the building blocks for a very successful career.
Then, when I watched my own son go through cannibis induced psychosis 15 years later and wrestle with him in his desperation as he pulled a loaded shot gun on his family (me).....it finally really sunk in. I had police around, I had to sell up my hunting firearms, he lost his gun licence and his much loved hobby, cannibis turned a healthy well adjusted kid into a depressed and not so useful member of society. He now wants to get back on track and cant due to convictions. He has lost neary 10 years of his life and possibly a good future. In his group of friends that came through the same school together, about 50% have ended up like him. Unemployed and desperate.

You may choose to call me ignorant, but I think I may actually know more than you do about it...... I have been full circle.

How can you prove that cannabis caused your sons psychosis? While it is sad to hear about your sons predicament, there is no evidence to suggest that it was caused by cannabis and not a pre existing medical condition. Presenting a firearm on someone does not sound like something that a person would do solely due to their cannabis use. I know that since it's so close to home you are looking for answers and want something to blame, but it pays to keep an open mind and blaming cannabis does not solve the problem; it is merely a scapegoat for a serious mental health condition. I have never known of anyone who goes around committing crime just because they're high on cannabis. It doesn't work that way.

[onearmedbandit]

If cannabis use triggered psychosis in people we would see a lot higher rate of violent attacks stemming from cannabis use. Don't blame the drug, look at the bigger picture. It's all I'm saying.

[skippa1]

How can you prove that cannabis caused your sons psychosis? While it is sad to hear about your sons predicament, there is no evidence to suggest that it was caused by cannabis and not a pre existing medical condition. Presenting a firearm on someone does not sound like something that a person would do solely due to their cannabis use. I know that since it's so close to home you are looking for answers and want something to blame, but it pays to keep an open mind and blaming cannabis does not solve the problem; it is merely a scapegoat for a serious mental health condition. I have never known of anyone who goes around committing crime just because they're high on cannabis. It doesn't work that way.

nup. You guys just dont seem to listen.....really, you dont. He may or may not (though may is most likely) was predisposed to psychosis as it was, but cannibis has brought that on. I am not looking to blame anything because it is "close to home", I have been through a whole lot more that has contributed to my view than this, I have more than one child, they have groups of friends, I have sought proffesional help, I have read and reasearched even had another go at it to confirm my views. NO just because a person is stoned, they are not going to present a firearm I gree, but a person that is depressed when they come down, is having trouble coping with life without drugs.....is very capable. You have to remember, its a flip of a coin that psycosis or other mental disorders are brought on by drugs and it can happen to anyone at any time.

[skippa1]

If cannabis use triggered psychosis in people we would see a lot higher rate of violent attacks stemming from cannabis use. Don't blame the drug, look at the bigger picture. It's all I'm saying.

how do you know the violent attacks we see are not triggered by cannibis use not being stoned just by use and its effects.

[skippa1]

The way you come across is that you seem to have a superiority complex over 'stoners'. I'm sure Richard Branson would love to hear how much better you think he could be or do if he didn't smoke.

Your research? I read your post. It seems to be based on your own personal experiences. That to me is not research, that's experience. Research famous and successful smokers, I'm sure you'll be quite surprised. I know heavy smokers who hold down good jobs, who own businesses, who employ people. That's my experience. I also know smokers who do fuck all. I also know non smokers who are successful, and those that amount to very little.

My point is you can not solely lay the blame at the feet of the 'drug'. It lies with the person involved. Unfortunately marijuana does attract some less desirable members of society. Mind you, so does motorcycling.

I dont feel superior.....I feel sad. I feel sad that we try to normalise and rationalise with the view that some have been succesful in business even though they smoke. How many Richard Bransons are there?...Just one I think. Show me one Richard Branson and I will raise you 10 just like my son.in fact make it 100, I think I will win the hand

[Winston001]

It's a Lebowski moment.

Your homework is to obtain a copy of 'The Big Lebowski'. (I got mine off iTunes).
This is one of the all time greatest films ever.
The Dude abides.

Kwl. Its one of the few excellent movies I've not quite got around to.

[Big Dave]

If cannabis use triggered psychosis in people we would see a lot higher rate of violent attacks stemming from cannabis use.

I don't know of any that get violent - but Weed can exacerbate existing psychosis - some dudes can be straight and normal - spliff up and it's 'Panic Attack' city.

[Katman]

nup. You guys just dont seem to listen.....really, you dont. He may or may not (though may is most likely) was predisposed to psychosis as it was, but cannibis has brought that on. I am not looking to blame anything because it is "close to home", I have been through a whole lot more that has contributed to my view than this, I have more than one child, they have groups of friends, I have sought proffesional help, I have read and reasearched even had another go at it to confirm my views. NO just because a person is stoned, they are not going to present a firearm I gree, but a person that is depressed when they come down, is having trouble coping with life without drugs.....is very capable. You have to remember, its a flip of a coin that psycosis or other mental disorders are brought on by drugs and it can happen to anyone at any time.

Are you related to Edbear?

[jrandom]

I started smoking cannabis in my early 20s after a fair amount of research and careful consideration. Never regretted it. The herb enriches my life.

Can't smoke or eat it at the moment because I'm working in construction and I'm subject to random testing. C'est la vie. My future career plans will probably keep me in that position. I'll survive. It's a nice-to-have, not an essential. The Aotearoa Legalise Cannabis Party will continue to get my party vote every election, however. If everyone reading this thread who agreed with me on the topic, and all their friends who agreed with them, did the same, we might see legalisation within this decade.

Probably won't happen that quickly, because people are apathetic. Canada and several states of the USA are pretty much there already, though, so there's hope.

And when it comes to the popular perception of people who smoke cannabis generally losing at life, well - it's done me no harm, and I know plenty of individuals in the same boat. Intelligent, hard-working guys who make the world a better place and happen to enjoy being stoned.

I say take the warning labels off everything and let people be responsible for themselves. Cannabis doesn't make smart people stupid, it doesn't make sane people insane, and it doesn't make energetic people lazy. Unless you're so goddamn intoxicated that all you can do is go to sleep, you're still in control of your own choices.

[jrandom]

nup. You guys just dont seem to listen.....really, you dont. He may or may not (though may is most likely) was predisposed to psychosis as it was, but cannibis has brought that on.

That's like blaming someone's clinical depression and eventual suicide on the fact that it was raining that day.

[SMOKEU]

but a person that is depressed when they come down, is having trouble coping with life without drugs.....is very capable..

That's true with methamphetamine and other hard drugs such as cocaine, but cannabis users do not "come down" like hard drug users and it's not physically addictive where they can't cope without it. Once the buzz wears off the user may get the munchies and feel quite relaxed, but that's it. I have never once met a person who becomes violent after smoking pot. I have, however, met plenty of people who are nice when they're sober, yet become violent when they're under the effects of alcohol. It's alcohol that causes the vast majority of substance abuse harm, not cannabis.

[jrandom]

It's alcohol that causes the vast majority of substance abuse harm, not cannabis.

Sure does. And I'd challenge any NZ cop to disagree with that.

As a side point, I'd like to make it clear that I don't approve of anyone working while not sober. Do what you want in your own time with my blessing, but if anyone turned up of a morning drunk or stoned to work in my crew, they'd be up the road without a second chance.

Well, at least a week or two of unpaid leave to meditate upon their sins before coming back to redeem themselves.

I devoutly hope that drug-testing technology will eventually allow us to easily and cheaply test people in the workplace for actual impairment, rather than just evidence of historical drug use. It'll require blood tests, because hair and urine testing shows metabolites (ie, what the body leaves over after the fact, as opposed to the actual substances that are active in the central nervous system) for days or weeks after any intoxicating effect has ceased. Right now, workplace blood testing is expensive and impractical, and all you can do to keep your piss clean if you want to work in a tested industry is abstain.

Unfortunately, most people involved with workplace testing - Health & Safety managers and the people who run the drug testing companies - are actually unaware of this distinction, and think that being "detectable in the system" means that someone's under the influence.

It's not hard to explain to them. I've tried and succeeded. But it's impossible to implement, because construction sites and forestry operations and suchlike don't have special refrigerators and registered nurses on site and all that jazz.

The working-while-stoned guy the OP references was fortunate enough to be employed by a knuckle-dragging mouth-breather who didn't understand the necessity of due process when terminating an employee. Turn up to work with a hip-flask or a bag of bud and, yeah, your arse should be fired. His termination was justified, but it was done incorrectly.

Even so... when I was a bicycle courier, a solid percentage of the pedal and motor bike couriers in Auckland worked stoned. A mate of mine used to get on the RT and announce to the dispatcher that he was going to roll himself a half-and-half and wouldn't be available to take jobs for the next ten minutes. Never seemed to do any of them any harm. Wasn't something I could handle, but, horses for courses. All very naughty and stuff, but there you go. When was the last time you heard of an Auckland motorcycle courier causing a crash in traffic?

[onearmedbandit]

I don't know of any that get violent - but Weed can exacerbate existing psychosis - some dudes can be straight and normal - spliff up and it's 'Panic Attack' city.

And alcohol might just do the same. And acid etc etc etc. It's the person, not the drug. A gun by itself can't kill another human. A gun in the right hands won't kill another person. But put that gun in the wrong hands...

[onearmedbandit]

I dont feel superior.....I feel sad. I feel sad that we try to normalise and rationalise with the view that some have been succesful in business even though they smoke. How many Richard Bransons are there?...Just one I think. Show me one Richard Branson and I will raise you 10 just like my son.in fact make it 100, I think I will win the hand

Sad. Do you know what is sad? That you can't seem to accept that some people can function normally, and to their best even though they smoke marijuana. That's sad.

Just the one? Sure there is only one Richard Branson. But there are many many other successful people who smoke it regularly. Like I said, do some research. Then come and show me your 100. And provide evidence that marijuana was the only factor involved. That means no alcohol use, no p, no acid, no environmental issues. I know many smokers, as I've said before, who lead successful lives with no problems. Even those with other issues.

I'm not doubting there are some people that shouldn't smoke it. These same people probably shouldn't drink or take any other drugs. But that's like blaming guns for killing people. Guns don't, people do. In the right hands a gun is perfectly safe to another human. In the wrong hands (as you've experienced) they are not. Where do you stand on guns?

[HenryDorsetCase]

.....is this a Cheech and Chong moment...??

BIG LEBOWSKI

They're nihilists, Dude, they don't believe in anything