Asset sale protests!

[oldrider]

I have always said NZ is a "socialist country" (nurtured by the state school system) today's asset sales protests simply demonstrate the point!

The objective should be less "monopoly" government interference and increased creation of commercial opportunities for business growth!

Government assets are dependant on taxpayer support (Air NZ) and higher and higher consumer pricing! (electricity)

By floating public shares in the asset, only those who want to invest need invest, freeing up taxpayer money for other projects!

"Real" competition rather than in house SOE "pretend monopoly competition" high price setting "should" put the brakes on unsupported price rises!

I was disgusted with the protests today, not so much about the stated reason but more by the "proof" that New Zealanders are so collectively stupid!

Even more disturbing is the part the media played in trying to maximise the coverage of the stupidity!

[scumdog]

Hmm, if asked "What assets are the Government intending to sell?" I wonder how many of the protest mob could give an accurate answer - or answer at all?

[FJRider]

I guess we'll see to what degree of public support of Goverment now holds ... after the next election.

[FJRider]

Hmm, if asked "What assets are the Government intending to sell?" I wonder how many of the protest mob could give an accurate answer - or answer at all?

And if five different people were asked/able to give an explanation of such sales ... five different explanations would result.

[Brian d marge]

Hmm, if asked "What assets are the Government intending to sell?" I wonder how many of the protest mob could give an accurate answer - or answer at all?

49.9999999999999999999999% of all

Stephen

[Damantis]

Hmm, if asked "What assets are the Government intending to sell?" I wonder how many of the protest mob could give an accurate answer - or answer at all?

Most would be reasonably more informed than the Tory muppets who belieive Asset Sales make any financial sense. At least said protesters got off thier arses and stood up for what they are passionate about instead of just whining about societys ills and blaming the poor from the comfort of behind a keyboard or on the phone to talkback etc. And yes, I WAS THERE.

Asset sales are driven purely by a right a wing ideology about government having less influence or control of things and leaving it all to big business interests... Corporate America? Things worked out well them huh? The economics of it are pretty simple. They sell up, there is a small but noticable dent in the deficit, then we get less return on our reduced ownership until it's making no money at all because it's all been sucked offshore to John Keys rich mates. Oh wait, there's more. When it's unprofitable, we'll have to buy out all these foriegn "investors" (rapists) so we can continue to keep these companies operating as they are essential utilities! ( Kiwirail, anyone? )

How does selling ANY of it make sense if they are already making money? If you had a dairy farm and some debt, would you sell half your cows or just sell the milk?

All of that said, people are overlooking the obvious objection. All New Zealanders ALREADY OWN THESE ASSETS! Who the fuck does Key and his rich asshole mates think they are? They are selling away what we all have bought and paid for over generations of taxation! Well excuse me, but I'm already a fricken shareholder and I want my share to be managed by the government and the dividends paid back to me via the consolidated fund / superannuation / decent health system or whatever. How dare they steal it from me and my children, then have the cheek to offer it back to me at a price!

It's fucking bolocks.

But I suppose being an agent of the state, you'd be led to believe some fairy story about it making some kind of financial sense.

[puddytat]

I would like to know which country so far has benefitted from such asset sales.... You know , the one where people are dancing in the street in joy as to the difference it has made to thier lives.
And I mean the Nation as a whole, not just Corporations or the privileged rich.

[Damantis]

I would like to know which country so far has benefitted from such asset sales.... You know , the one where people are dancing in the street in joy as to the difference it has made to thier lives.
And I mean the Nation as a whole, not just Corporations or the privileged rich.

I mean just look at what it's done for Waihi and Huntly! They are just booming, right?

All this crap about "Mum and Dad investors" is a crock too. Most Kiwis dont even have the 2-3k lying around to spend on shares, and the ones that might, will sell them to offshore interests as soon as a buck can be made so effectively nearly all of the future profits from the SOE's will go to big corporartes. Big corporates who have a track record of fucking the other 99% of the world ever since the industrial revolution started.

[Damantis]

Yeah, bloody media! Fancy reporting about thousands of people voicing their democratic right to protest! Bloody cheek! They should have been showing us funny cat videos or disseminating government propaganda or updayed us on Tom Cruises divorce or given us an extra five minutes of men kicking a ball around. I know that's the sort of news that's really important.

[Road kill]

Well that shut the oldrider an scumbag club up for a change.

[FJRider]

Most would be reasonably more informed than the Tory muppets who belieive Asset Sales make any financial sense. At least said protesters got off thier arses and stood up for what they are passionate about instead of just whining about societys ills and blaming the poor from the comfort of behind a keyboard or on the phone to talkback etc. And yes, I WAS THERE.

Was there any particular asset mentioned, that was being sold ... that the people were objecting to ???
Which particular condition of that sale (or any sale) ... did they object to ???
Do you think it may pay to wait and see if the sale of any "asset" ... will be to our advantage ???
Or does those sales be automatically ... be to our disadvantage ???

Asset sales are driven purely by a right a wing ideology about government having less influence or control of things and leaving it all to big business interests...

The control will be in "Conditions of sale" ... written as usual into the contract of sale.
You no doubt have read the sale contract for all the "assets" that will be sold ... ???

When it's unprofitable, we'll have to buy out all these foriegn "investors" (rapists) so we can continue to keep these companies operating as they are essential utilities! ( Kiwirail, anyone? )

As far as Kiwirail went ... in an attempt to keep it profitable, services were reduced/removed ... with only essential repairs made to keep operations going. Lack of public support meant costs outweighed profit. The very same public, that now claim it was an essential service. This was before it was sold to Toll. And during the ownership of Toll ... the goverment hardly lost out in profit from the rail system .... in the way of GST (alone) from all services supplied by Toll. I (or anybody else) can hardly believe they (Toll) were making money "hand over fist" ... If they actually were ... they still would be.

Interestingly ... with the increase in fuel costs ... and coming increases in road tax fees ... (announced by goverment recently) rail may come into it's own again soon. A reduction in trucks weight/size limits ... this policy brings ... can't hurt the rail system.

How does selling ANY of it make sense if they are already making money? If you had a dairy farm and some debt, would you sell half your cows or just sell the milk?

If the sale of those cows cover existing debt ... thus income from the existing cows (after farm costs) was profit. With NO payment any interest fee's on loans ... that would be a viable option to a dairy farm manager.

All of that said, people are overlooking the obvious objection. All New Zealanders ALREADY OWN THESE ASSETS! Who the fuck does Key and his rich asshole mates think they are? They are selling away what we all have bought and paid for over generations of taxation! Well excuse me, but I'm already a fricken shareholder and I want my share to be managed by the government and the dividends paid back to me via the consolidated fund / superannuation / decent health system or whatever. How dare they steal it from me and my children, then have the cheek to offer it back to me at a price!

If it's "Bought and paid for" ... how do you explain the national (excuse the pun) debt ... ??? how many billion is it at the moment ... ???

It's fucking bolocks.

That is exactly my opinion of your post.

But I suppose being an agent of the state, you'd be led to believe some fairy story about it making some kind of financial sense.

I thought he was merely a goverment employee ... an employee not dependant on ANY particular goverment party for employment ... thus not with ANY political affiliations as a requirement/condition of employment ...

Or have I got it wrong ... again ...

[Brian d marge]

And if five different people were asked/able to give an explanation of such sales ... five different explanations would result.

because people arent being given the information

Ive started countless threads on this .

It is an ideology from the Chicago school of thought , the assets will first be under limited ownership , and may ( most of them ) remain so , the law will be past that allows more than 50 % ownership , they will stay mostly under NZ ownership (owned by the few big NZ investors OR Australians if they can get it listed on the Australian stock exchange)
If there are any BIG ROIs then expect overseas investors to head the bill.

Shareholder quite rightly expect a return on investment , so we now have 50 % of the company owners expecting a return ..of? 5, 6 % and the Government wants a return of?

IF, as in Kiwirail and off top of head , one of the electricity companys were to be sold, then the new owner will seek to cover the costs involved AND any share holder returns,

now this is all well and good for say Apple or Sony or Jk engineering .co..... BUT these are essential services , that some people quite literally depend upon , the woman who had her electricity cut off and she needed it to breathe , ( yes they weren't exactly brain surgeons but ) , In fact I would say anything todo with the environment cannot be left to a lassez faire business model, as if its screwed up we all suffer ( if you want to see that in action look at some of the rivers in china )

The argument people such as FJ rider are quite valid for the business environment , sorry but water is an essential service ( try not using it for a while ) as is electricity and the health system some would argue the telephone and education, but you could do with out both , many do and have

If you sell water , the costs ( to you the average man on the street ) WILL go up , the quality of the services will deteriorate ( water management, ) as these thing are run to make money ,,, and if coke cola wants to build a huge plant in Christchurch to supply the Australasian market , who will monitor the amount of that beautiful Christchurch water that takes a few years to fill.........may not happen but it wouldn't surprise me if it did.


Why am I so sure? Because its happened in other countries and in New Zealand … wasnt it a 400% increase for electricity prices , than if it had remained the old electricity board


Stephen

[Brian d marge]

I would like to know which country so far has benefitted from such asset sales.... You know , the one where people are dancing in the street in joy as to the difference it has made to thier lives.
And I mean the Nation as a whole, not just Corporations or the privileged rich.

the only one I can think of , is UAE.... and Rockall

Stephen

[FJRider]

Because people arent being given the information

Information that can't be given out ... as it is not yet written into any contract .... yet. Any comment on what IS possibly going to be in them ... is down to ... guesswork and assumptions. Hardly the basis of valid arguments.

If there are any BIG ROIs then expect overseas investors to head the bill.

IF ... thats a big if ... but there are more if's ...

If they want to take the risk.
If they accept the conditions of sale.
If they have the finance to buy in for the price/terms.
If the goverment can come up with a deal that's not political suicide ... come the next election.

Shareholder quite rightly expect a return on investment , so we now have 50 % of the company owners expecting a return ..of? 5, 6 % and the Government wants a return of ?

If operational costs are reduced/removed as part of sale conditions ... those costs are not returns as such, but savings. Either way ... it's still money in the bank. If tax breaks are given in return for greater operational costs covered ... The buyer company profit still remains viable. As do returns to goverment coffers.

IF, as in Kiwirail and off top of head , one of the electricity companys were to be sold, then the new owner will seek to cover the costs involved AND any share holder returns,

If they think they can't ... they won't buy in ... one would think ???

now this is all well and good for say Apple or Sony or Jk engineering .co..... BUT these are essential services.

At this stage it's only guesswork on what actually will be sold. To compare the sale of an existing business ... to one's being built in China ... is just plain scaremongering.

The argument people such as FJ rider are quite valid for the business environment , sorry but water is an essential service ( try not using it for a while ) as is electricity and the health system

The supply of required water amounts to hydro schemes, cannot be guaranted ... even by goverment. Production of water is not under goverment control.

The public health system is already subsidised by the private health companys ... as they share/use most of the equipment public hospitals have. If they didn't ... waiting lists would be shorter, but more expensive to fund (by goverment)

If you sell water

If any product is needed ... and a system/structure is built to provide it ... costs to provide that service must be met. If that product is wasted by the consumer ... it's only fair to expect to pay more for the service ... isn't it ???
If 20 years ago ... people were told they would be buying bottled water in supermarkets by the gallon ... they would (and were) laughed at.

… wasnt it a 400% increase for electricity prices , than if it had remained the old electricity board

Who is to say the "old electricity board" would not have put the price up ???
Or because it was goverment run ... they would cover any increases out of our taxes ??? I doubt it ...

[Jacko2]

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