Forced induction 100cc

[Paul in NZ]

Phark - I feel less worthy and more ham fisted every time I read one of these threads....

Awesome stuff....

[NordieBoy]

Phark - I feel less worthy and more ham fisted every time I read one of these threads....

Awesome stuff....

I replaced a broken spoke and felt proud

[jasonu]

I'm sure this is all against the 'spirit of the rules'
Maybe I will ask the MNZ to make an emergency rule clarification...

[Sketchy_Racer]

I'm sure this is all against the 'spirit of the rules'
Maybe I will ask the MNZ to make an emergency rule clarification...

As long as in the same rule change 80cc MX engines are introduced

[Sketchy_Racer]

No cigar!

Just tested it at 2:1 over drive which should have given me a 200,000 RPM shaft speed at 10,000 engine RPM and 22 ish psi boost gave me nothing more than 5psi so it's obvious that the magic behind these types of traction drives is in the magic fluid. Luckily I am lucky enough to be getting some to test from Yowling so hopefully it will cure the problem. I also believe that the pretension of the annulus (the outer ring) on the planet rollers is not enough, so if the traction fluid doesn't solve the problem then I will also increase the fit of that.

Oh well, all pretty basic problems to solve

[speedpro]

No cigar!

Oh well, all pretty basic problems to solve

So basic I've decided to make one in my lunch break. Geeez!

[Grumph]

No cigar!

Just tested it at 2:1 over drive which should have given me a 200,000 RPM shaft speed at 10,000 engine RPM and 22 ish psi boost gave me nothing more than 5psi so it's obvious that the magic behind these types of traction drives is in the magic fluid. Luckily I am lucky enough to be getting some to test from Yowling so hopefully it will cure the problem. I also believe that the pretension of the annulus (the outer ring) on the planet rollers is not enough, so if the traction fluid doesn't solve the problem then I will also increase the fit of that.

Oh well, all pretty basic problems to solve

Make the bastard solid drive with a starter clutch in there to take care of the over run loads....

WE WANT MORE BOOST.

[Yow Ling]

Hurry up Sketchy, you must have been home for at least 20min !

[Sketchy_Racer]

No time to work on it tonight, so it will have to wait until after work tomorrow. I hope it works, but history tells me not to get excited just yet.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Well, I wasn't going to post my failures, because it is rather embarrassing, but the supercharger still doesn't work.

I got the oil from Yowling and put it in with no modification of the charger and got LESS boost, was only getting 2psi and it was making 5 with CVT oil. I though to myself, surely I am not applying enough pressure to activate the phase change of the traction fluid to for the elasto-solid to transfer torque, so I made another outer ring (3rd time) with even more pre-tension and had to heat it to 150 degrees to get it on. I put it all together and ran the bike up, and managed 5psi which was a little more promising but after 2 minutes the oil inside boiled and blew all the sealer out and literally dropped it's guts. Luckily no damage to any of the supercharger parts.

So I left it for a day as I was pissed right off with it, but today I spent my lunch break researching traction fluids. I can't make out what brand exactly traction fluid I have (Yowling put MSI alpha traction fluid) but that returned no information on google. So I looked up all the alternatives and found that the major supplier of traction fluid is from Santolube from USA and their Santotrac 50 (http://www.santolubes.com/resources/...NTOTRAC-50.pdf) is the most common traction fluid that is usually re-branded. It was thoroughly tested by NASA when they were designing the mars rover gearbox along with many other traction fluids and surprisingly there is a LOT of information on the web about it. It turns out that the traction fluids are very sensitive to the loading they are put through achieve the dynamic phase change. Not enough pressure and it wont work, but also to much pressure and it will fail equally.

If you imagine that the fluid contains these long thin polymers that in most situations lubricate by preventing metal to metal contact (as most oils do) in a traction fluid when the right amount of pressure is exerted the polymers will align and grip each other and create traction (note: not friction) between the two surfaces, but if the pressure is to great the polymers are squeezed out and can't achieve this condtion.

So, in terms of pressure, all the fluids are the same sort of level within 5% and are asking for around 907Mpa (mega pascals) this equates to 92.5 Kgf/mm2 which when worked out to the contact patch of my outer ring on the rollers equals 4.628 Kg which is really not that much! Well, certainly a lot lot less than what I currently have.

I am going to the best of my ability try to achieve this loading upon my rollers. Upon dissasembly I have also learnt of machining tolerance failures so that the rollers were not contacting the shaft correctly so it seems that it may have been a combined effect of this failure.

So once again, no good news but I have learnt even more which is always fun, and still have enough oil for 2 more attempts so I hope I can manage it! I have emailed Santolube to try and source some oil also.

I will post in tomorrow to let you know how it all goes.

[bogan]

Knowing very little about traction fluids, but 4.7kg force sounds like bugger all, I assume the force goes up if you have a bigger contact patch? Is the problem perhaps your contact patch is too small? Mind you, stands to reason if you were getting 5psi with far too large of a force, the correct force might bump it up enough. Be intersting to see how it goes with the better force anyway. Good perseverance btw!

[Farmaken]

And here I am getting excited about grinding some more holes in my cylinder liner

This is very clever stuff indeed

[TZ350]

Sketch, thats a realy interesting post ......

[husaberg]

silly question, but has you tested the supercharger by it self to see what it produces.

missed the HKS one myself


i can't remember where i seen the schematic,(not the one above) but i swear one i seen had 2 oil coolers pre and post the oil pump?

this is some impressive shit you do Glenn

[Yow Ling]

Google ALPHA traction oil

http://www.chemcas.com/msds112/cas/2...3_128-37-0.asp
above is the MSDS

We use it in a Graham drive which is a common usage for it

Im sticking with the FXR route for now