There's still some things need sorting but it's getting better

[Billy]

Im not trying to justify my actions. I was in the wrong but it was a mistake in confusing circumstances. There is a little more to it than most of you realise because of what we had gone through after the first race.

Im raising a different point and pointing out a safety concern as this was the point of the thread.

There seems to be 3 sorts of people discussing this thread.

1, People that know fuck all and are jumping on a band wagon.
2, Bureaucrats that like to band together to make sure we all know they are king dingaling
3, Internationally experienced racers

It seems when people are talking about the slip road there is a lot of ifs buts and maybes. Seems like a very easy solution to completely eliminate the problem but there are some egos here that dont want to agree with me. Maybe we could give it a few weeks so they can come up with the solution?

What do you think would happen If there was a potential hazard at work that I identified and provided a solution for the employer and they ignored it and something happened?

My incident has just highlighted how a momentary lapse in concentration or a confusing situation has the potential to end very badly and I would hate to see an accident happen when it is such a simple solution to solve the problem.

Id like to see how anyone can disagree with that....

OOPS,You forgot one group,

That would be the board members,Commissioners and race officials that are charged with running the sport and organising the race meetings,Oh and having to deal with the police and the coroner when some self confessed expert decides that all of a sudden a slip road that has been in use for around 26 years without incident is all of a sudden to dangerous,So he decides to cross the start finish straight (The area where all 4 solo motorcyclist fatalities have taken place at Manfeild) before being signalled that it is safe for EVERYONE concerned for you to do so.

Then theres the other group you forgot,The MNZ trained flag marshalls that you refer to as children,You know the ones,Theyre the people that also have to deal with the aftermath of dumb decision making after spending countless hours of training and standing out there in all sorts of weather so you can go racing.

Quite simply Sloan,If you or your international buddies,Who incidently have ZERO input into the running of the sport in any capacity,Have a safety concern,Your first port of call should be the MNZ website to instigate a rulechange based on safety(seems odd to me that all of a sudden theres a safety issue with the slip road at Manfeild and none of your outspoken international buddies have complained about it before).

Finally,Try and take some personal responsibility for the mistakes you make will you,Instead of pointing the finger at anybody that makes comment,Most experienced person at the track that day,Seriously ????

[Biggles08]

wow...this is getting interesting!

[Kevin G]

OOPS,You forgot one group,

That would be the board members,Commissioners and race officials that are charged with running the sport and organising the race meetings,Oh and having to deal with the police and the coroner when some self confessed expert decides that all of a sudden a slip road that has been in use for around 26 years without incident is all of a sudden to dangerous,So he decides to cross the start finish straight (The area where all 4 solo motorcyclist fatalities have taken place at Manfeild) before being signalled that it is safe for EVERYONE concerned for you to do so.

Then theres the other group you forgot,The MNZ trained flag marshalls that you refer to as children,You know the ones,Theyre the people that also have to deal with the aftermath of dumb decision making after spending countless hours of training and standing out there in all sorts of weather so you can go racing.

Quite simply Sloan,If you or your international buddies,Who incidently have ZERO input into the running of the sport in any capacity,Have a safety concern,Your first port of call should be the MNZ website to instigate a rulechange based on safety(seems odd to me that all of a sudden theres a safety issue with the slip road at Manfeild and none of your outspoken international buddies have complained about it before).

Finally,Try and take some personal responsibility for the mistakes you make will you,Instead of pointing the finger at anybody that makes comment,Most experienced person at the track that day,Seriously ????

Ding A Ling Billy!

[CHOPPA]

OOPS,You forgot one group,

That would be the board members,Commissioners and race officials that are charged with running the sport and organising the race meetings,Oh and having to deal with the police and the coroner when some self confessed expert decides that all of a sudden a slip road that has been in use for around 26 years without incident is all of a sudden to dangerous,So he decides to cross the start finish straight (The area where all 4 solo motorcyclist fatalities have taken place at Manfeild) before being signalled that it is safe for EVERYONE concerned for you to do so.

Then theres the other group you forgot,The MNZ trained flag marshalls that you refer to as children,You know the ones,Theyre the people that also have to deal with the aftermath of dumb decision making after spending countless hours of training and standing out there in all sorts of weather so you can go racing.

Quite simply Sloan,If you or your international buddies,Who incidently have ZERO input into the running of the sport in any capacity,Have a safety concern,Your first port of call should be the MNZ website to instigate a rulechange based on safety(seems odd to me that all of a sudden theres a safety issue with the slip road at Manfeild and none of your outspoken international buddies have complained about it before).

Finally,Try and take some personal responsibility for the mistakes you make will you,Instead of pointing the finger at anybody that makes comment,Most experienced person at the track that day,Seriously ????

Didnt forget them at all. You all fit into the 2nd category. Here you go off on a rant when you quite simply have not read my post or taken a moment to consider the possibly benefits in what I have just said.

I have taken responsibility for my actions, it was dealt with at the track and I admitted it was my mistake and apologized to the both Skunk and Clive.

I have also voiced my opinion to the stewards at that meeting regarding the slip road.

I now know that I am wrong, there is no safety issue because nothing has happened in the past so it couldnt possibly happen in the future. Im just pleased you took my thoughts into consideration. Your obviously a very rational man.

As far as the marshals were concerned. This was a completely different instance than when I crossed the track. Im not blaming them. I was making a comment that when they are moving around within there marshalling area that they should be careful what they do with the flag. Holding the flag above your head while they negotiate moving to the track side while walking side to side before the track is clear could possibly be seen as a green flag being waved.

And yes I would say over the passed 20 years I would have attended more events than most of the people at the event.

At the moment im pretty busy with racing the sport. You wouldnt have a sport if you didnt have people like me who race.... I do as much possible for the sport in general and I do what I can for the riders in the sport. When I have finished racing I will be an official or a steward or a commissioner and I will be fucken brilliant

[CHOPPA]

I might be vocal with any complaints I have but im also quick to give paise when the club has done well. The Vic club has really stepped up, they are doing things by the book and I personally congratulated Skunk on the work that they had done. Its a brilliant series and im pleased to be part of it.

If I make a suggestion it should promote healthy discussion but it always gets taken as im attacking someone and they get all on the defensive rather than taking what I say with an open mind.

I noticed at round 1 that Vic club had adopted an idea that I had raised about displaying blue flags to locate marshal points on the first lap of practice so not to confuse people if there was an actual yellow flag situation. This is a great idea (if i do say so myself) but unfortunately it was changed back at R2 because it didnt fit within the MNZ rules but VIC club are trying to have it changed.

I can dig up the thread but even that idea was originally ridiculed in the beginning

[worm13]

Maybe with mx but maybe not so much road racing, yes a point has been made that it could be unsafe.... your right there it could be unsafe and yes you would be right in regards of work place risk assement also what you have missed is what risk would arise if we did the full lap of pulling off and cool down laps speeds very from rider to rider does that mean we all should run a speed limiter in the regards of a pit lane limiter or something like that, have you assed the hazard here does the risk out weigh the risk of using the slip road... food for thought isnt it. (speed at the end of the back straight vs speed before slip road)
if we minimise the risk and at this point the system that ive know in road racing for the past 14 years has worked fine and we have been lucky with people who have had brain explosions and crossed the track havent killed someone or even hit another rider, If your not happy with what is and has been working well why not even talk to manfield and ask them what they think of it, they are the ones that have given us a faclity to use in this regards? surely if they had any concren on the way we use it, wouldnt you think they will would put a hold us using it in the same way manfield dont allow national races to be run on the full track, (my past employer was a big wig on the board for manfield a few years ago and asked the question why it doesnt get used and got that as answer) you may find they may listen to what you have to say how ever at the end of the day if they dont want to get invovled MNZ get the last say at the end of the day.

And dude the comment about if it wasnt for us racing then it wouldnt happen at all is a pretty shit box attitude towards the people that give up there time to run the show, put up with at time horfic sights from injurys etc etc. if we all turned up to go racing and they didnt... whats going to happen?? No fucking way will we get to and race, but if 20 riders didnt turn up but we had the marshals and everyone else who make it possable guess what we get to go out.

Im all for the death tally to stop!! but at this point the buck stops with us the riders in most cases

[Kevin G]

Didnt forget them at all. You all fit into the 2nd category. Here you go off on a rant when you quite simply have not read my post or taken a moment to consider the possibly benefits in what I have just said.

I have taken responsibility for my actions, it was dealt with at the track and I admitted it was my mistake and apologized to the both Skunk and Clive.

I have also voiced my opinion to the stewards at that meeting regarding the slip road.

I now know that I am wrong, there is no safety issue because nothing has happened in the past so it couldnt possibly happen in the future. Im just pleased you took my thoughts into consideration. Your obviously a very rational man.

As far as the marshals were concerned. This was a completely different instance than when I crossed the track. Im not blaming them. I was making a comment that when they are moving around within there marshalling area that they should be careful what they do with the flag. Holding the flag above your head while they negotiate moving to the track side while walking side to side before the track is clear could possibly be seen as a green flag being waved.

And yes I would say over the passed 20 years I would have attended more events than most of the people at the event.

At the moment im pretty busy with racing the sport. You wouldnt have a sport if you didnt have people like me who race.... I do as much possible for the sport in general and I do what I can for the riders in the sport. When I have finished racing I will be an official or a steward or a commissioner and I will be fucken brilliant

And I thought you were one of the few with a brain...why get into attacking others points of view or statements? As you say its a discussion but if people do not agree with your position or point then they are stupid, King dingalings (which is pretty funny btw) or inexperienced....There are lots of high emotions here for obvious reasons, lets not turn this into a poo slinging affair.
I think we would all agree if there is a way to make it safer then of course everyone would want to do this but....it cannot be done on this website (believe it or not) This is not even the right place to start it! Billy or the MNZ health and safety commissioner (lyn) can kick the process off to change things but not via this site. (I refer to things like your suggestion of flag colours) The slip road thing is really a Manfield specific thing and is better handled by the clubs officials that runs the event.

[CHOPPA]

And dude the comment about if it wasnt for us racing then it wouldnt happen at all is a pretty shit box attitude towards the people that give up there time to run the show, put up with at time horfic sights from injurys etc etc. if we all turned up to go racing and they didnt... whats going to happen?? No fucking way will we get to and race, but if 20 riders didnt turn up but we had the marshals and everyone else who make it possable guess what we get to go out.

Im all for the death tally to stop!! but at this point the buck stops with us the riders in most cases

Just a bit of tongue in cheek on that one mate

And I thought you were one of the few with a brain...why get into attacking others points of view or statements? As you say its a discussion but if people do not agree with your position or point then they are stupid, King dingalings (which is pretty funny btw) or inexperienced....There are lots of high emotions here for obvious reasons, lets not turn this into a poo slinging affair.
I think we would all agree if there is a way to make it safer then of course everyone would want to do this but....it cannot be done on this website (believe it or not) This is not even the right place to start it! Billy or the MNZ health and safety commissioner (lyn) can kick the process off to change things but not via this site. (I refer to things like your suggestion of flag colours) The slip road thing is really a Manfield specific thing and is better handled by the clubs officials that runs the event.

Fair point.

[Billy]

And yes I would say over the passed 20 years I would have attended more events than most of the people at the event.

At the moment im pretty busy with racing the sport. You wouldnt have a sport if you didnt have people like me who race.... I do as much possible for the sport in general and I do what I can for the riders in the sport. When I have finished racing I will be an official or a steward or a commissioner and I will be fucken brilliant [/QUOTE]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!Now that IS funny,What a rockstar you are.

Tell you what Sloan,Me and the other 100 plus volunteers that are required to put these events together and run the sport will all step away and then you and your mates can turn up on raceday with a pen and a piece of paper and make up the rules as you go,Even better,Make that a pencil and a rubber so it doesnt get to messy when you change them to cover up your mistakes.

Have a nice day mate,Rant over LOL!

[Biggles08]

For some reason this came to mind after reading this thread:

Who's the boss????

When the Lord made Man, all the parts of the body argued over who would be the Boss. The Brain explained that since he controlled all the parts of the body, he should be Boss. The Legs argued that since they took the Man wherever he wanted to go, he should be the Boss. The Stomach countered with the explanation that since he digested all the food, he should be the boss. The Eyes said that without them, Man would be helpless, so they should be Boss. Then the Ass Hole applied for the Job. The other parts of the body laughed so hard that the arse hole became mad and closed up. After a few days the Brain went foggy, the Legs got wobbly, the Stomach got ill, the Eyes got crossed and were unable to see. They all finally conceded and made the Arse Hole Boss. This proves you don't have to be a Brain to be Boss...Just an dirty smelly Arse Hole.

So now lets have an argument as to who wants to be the Arse Hole!

At the end of the day, everyone who is involved in motorcycle racing WANTS to be involved and all play their part in the machine that is our sport. That's to say racers, officials, flag marshals, mechanics, sponsors and anyone else I have forgotten. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head to do anything so It's completely irrelevant who is more important because we wouldn't have one without the other.

[Billy]

For some reason this came to mind after reading this thread:

Who's the boss????

When the Lord made Man, all the parts of the body argued over who would be the Boss. The Brain explained that since he controlled all the parts of the body, he should be Boss. The Legs argued that since they took the Man wherever he wanted to go, he should be the Boss. The Stomach countered with the explanation that since he digested all the food, he should be the boss. The Eyes said that without them, Man would be helpless, so they should be Boss. Then the Ass Hole applied for the Job. The other parts of the body laughed so hard that the arse hole became mad and closed up. After a few days the Brain went foggy, the Legs got wobbly, the Stomach got ill, the Eyes got crossed and were unable to see. They all finally conceded and made the Arse Hole Boss. This proves you don't have to be a Brain to be Boss...Just an dirty smelly Arse Hole.

So now lets have an argument as to who wants to be the Arse Hole!

At the end of the day, everyone who is involved in motorcycle racing WANTS to be involved and all play their part in the machine that is our sport. That's to say racers, officials, flag marshals, mechanics, sponsors and anyone else I have forgotten. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head to do anything so It's completely irrelevant who is more important because we wouldn't have one without the other.

Not quite true Marcus,

Example,Say for arguments sake you,Choppa,Craig Shirriffs and Glen Williams dont turn up to race at a meeting,Do you seriously think everybody else will go home????


Or say Skunk,Bernie Harnett,Clive Banks and 2 qualified flaggies don't turn up,Now where are you???

Or say the roadrace commissioner were to inform the Vic club,That as they are unable to officiate at a safe and reasonable level despite me giving them a directive to do so,I will be withdrawing their permits and not issuing anymore until such time as they can prove too me and the board that they are going to take action when riders at their meetings breach serious safety rules,I mean isn't that like me identifying a hazard in the workplace and acting on it ?????? We as a collective OWE it to Janice Brehaut,That Mark did not die in vain and that the good to come out of his tragic death is that WE ensure that NOBODY has to go through pain and suffering she has had to endure because some einstein thought he could break a serious safety rule,2 months out and where are we????

Yip your right we do ALL have a right to have some input to our sport,But it has to be done through the correct channels and in an orderly manner,Did I act on your request in the last couple of days?Did I inform you immediately of our plans to deal with your request? Yes I did,Thats how it works and it works very well when the correct protocols are used.

Call me an arsehole if you ,But that does not make me the boss,All I'm gonna do is turn the steering wheel in the direction the members force me to.

[SWERVE]

some of you guys should try racing in a series/championship with severly enforced rules and rules that not only cover the race track but what you can/cannot do anywhere inside the perimiter fence. A security guard on every gate you pass through and have the wrong/no pass and you dont enter.

You get sent home/ fined for discretions with your pit area... let alone a blatent saftey infringement on track.
Official letters/notices are given for things such as jump starts (jake lewis will confirm that) and it goes on record.

Do you want it to be like that............!
No... then follow the existing rules and think yourself lucky.

Personally i prefer the more stringent option........ your entry fees are sky high to pay for all the officialdom/etc..... but there is no bitchin (every complaint/protest has to be official) but meetings run like clockwork (generally)

My 2 cents.

[Maido]

I love racing in the south, its too cold to go near a track for at least 2 more months.
Reading all this makes me really miss the sport in the off season.

[jasonu]

some of you guys should try racing in a series/championship with severly enforced rules and rules that not only cover the race track but what you can/cannot do anywhere inside the perimiter fence. A security guard on every gate you pass through and have the wrong/no pass and you dont enter.

You get sent home/ fined for discretions with your pit area... let alone a blatent saftey infringement on track.
Official letters/notices are given for things such as jump starts (jake lewis will confirm that) and it goes on record.

My 2 cents.

Actually mate, that sounds pretty good to me. With rules (that are enforced consistantly) like that everyone would know exactly what they can and cannot do.
Just my 2 cents too.

[Biggles08]

Not quite true Marcus,

Example,Say for arguments sake you,Choppa,Craig Shirriffs and Glen Williams dont turn up to race at a meeting,Do you seriously think everybody else will go home????


Call me an arsehole if you ,But that does not make me the boss,All I'm gonna do is turn the steering wheel in the direction the members force me to.

Not quite my point Billy and I wasn't calling anyone an arsehole (but for the record Drew is) and like you explained, there would be no racing if those events unfolded...however, if no racers showed up (not just the rock-stars you mentioned) there also wouldn't be an event. After all, the whole point is to have bikes going around in circles.

This next point in no way is supposed to be aimed at anyone or meant in a negative way or even directed at this thread necessarily...if you take it that way it is your problem as I am not intending it to be abrasive....

We need to get rid of the "us and them" attitude that seems so engrained in those involved in this sport...the racers are not the enemy just as the organizers shouldn't be the racers enemy. I'm not sure why this is and maybe it is frustration on behalf of those I am referring to because they have put so much effort into the sport behind the scenes and then feel like no one cares or listens and they don't get any recognition for this effort/commitment. Then someone comes along and tries to change the way things are done which adds fuel to the fire.

I for one think EVERYONE that is involved with VMCC are doing a fantastic job and I make sure I tell Skunk this most meetings. But just because I don't go around to every flag marshal, every person in a high vis vest, everyone up in the tower or every MNZ representative does not make me any less appreciative of the effort they are putting in. I don't think there are any racers that I know of that would not appreciate what is done to organize these events for us...that's to say I don't know ANYONE that doesn't appreciate it. This now being a given, changing the way things are done to improve things for the sport should be embraced as much as possible by all wouldn't you say? We don't want to be re-inventing the wheel but discussions about these potential changes or ideas can be quite useful on sites such as this if all the BS is filtered out. I just think people get to wound up about preserving their legacy somewhat and forget the whole point they are involved in motorcycle racing just to defend said legacy.