There's still some things need sorting but it's getting better

[jellywrestler]

and whilst its easy for Jelly to bitch about niggly issues -

Glen,
I've been to three meetings where fatalities have occured this year, and lost three people whom I condsidered friends; three people whom I looked up to .
One of those incidents I, like so many others, saw unfold then occur. This incident in my opinion was so easily and totally avoidable and is a mirror image of whats happened before.
I travel to manfeild to assist the Victoria Club to help with their meeting, in my own time and at my own expense, save for a lunch they provide (thanks for that team)

I probably see more 'issues' out there as my 'job' is to watch the whole race from the commentary tower. I saw some issues and brought them into KIWIBIKER so people here could maybe learn from them.
For too long offences have occured without even a mention to the offender, they need to be told but telling them doesn't get the word out to everyone and having it every riders briefing only ends up with people not listening to anything.
I clearly said It was not to do with the Victoria Club, but could happen at an race meeting (or indeed track day), and I clearly said the intent of my post is to get some discussion going so people know these are dangerous moves and no names please, this is not a finger pointing game.
I'd like to think I was trying to improve things, I make no apology for wanting to do that, I do apologise to Skunk and crew if it's ended up pointing fingers at the Victoria Club, that was not my intent.

If you think that slowing down in the middle of the front straight on a current model 1000cc Motorcycle tapped out in the novice class is simply a niggly issue then so be it but I don't want to see another crash like happened earlier this year that with a bit of education can be avoided.


Lastly if people have thought about the slip road being unsafe then why haven't they contacted the clubs before about this and other issues instead of waiting for something to go wrong and then all say 'well I knew something was...."

Graeme 'Spyda' Staples

[jellywrestler]

I just got a mental picture of you consuming a filled roll !!

Lasagne and Coleslaw was my choice and damn fine too.

[MSTRS:Me]

CHOPPA is correct about the slip road being a potentually dangerous situation!!!! Just stop using it and the potentuall is eliminated!

But then again,nothing gets taken seriously on here,no matter who says what, so just keep up the abuse team, it is as funny as shit to read when I am killing time

OK. I'll bite...

Every racer (plus officials and volunteers) signs a waiver that states "Racing is dangerous...etc' This must be signed each and every time someone participates at a race day. Everyone knows that completely eliminating all risk is not possible.

The simple fact is - just being out on the track holds some level of danger. The rules are there to minimise these dangers, and it is expected that everyone will follow them. And that includes following instructions given via flags.
I don't buy Choppa's "I was confused". He is too experienced to not know the rules and what to do at the sliproad.

[yungatart]

Well why would they raise a green flag above there head when it is not clear to cross the track? obviously not experienced enough.....

I didn't see that, or I would have done something about it...did you mention it to any official on the day?

Or maybe that rider is one of the most experienced people at the meeting and maybe they have a point??

as you said....

obviously not experienced enough.....

As i wasnt there i wont be specific or mention Choppa or Shaun or Glen's names either.
The fact is i have always liked the slip road (that like started in 1986) and yet in all those years the silly system has been to wave a cute flag to allow the riders to move across the track back to the pits from the start line. Why not use a light / siren/ hooter to control it and that can be controlled by an official high in thye control room with safety and authority. This can be located like a bloody great search light on the stand side of the track and this wont create the need to place a pole to mount said light on . What say you peasants ??

The green flag IS controlled by Race Control....

[Skunk]

Why not use a light / siren/ hooter to control it and that can be controlled by an official high in thye control room with safety and authority. This can be located like a bloody great search light on the stand side of the track and this wont create the need to place a pole to mount said light on . What say you peasants ??

The green flag to cross the track is displayed at Flag Point 8 (at pit entry - you may not have seen us use this flag point Paul) and, as with all track crossings, Starts, Red Flags, Black Flags, Jump Start Boards etc, is under control of Race Control. They are not used without instruction from Race Control. A flag point cannot even ask to use one.
They only have discretion to use Yellow, Yellow/Orange, and Blue flags.

Bike recovery is under control of Race Control.

If any rider sees something they don't like go see the Riders Rep. Riders Rep then brings it to Race Control. Don't post your concern after the meeting on some website.

You should know this as it's in your rule book. By entering a Race Meeting you have signed a legal, binding contract saying you have read, understood, and will obey it.

[wharfy]

I've done 3 winter series and the slip road has been used without incident in all the races I was in (or watched).

1/ The flag marshall indicating riders should exit the track onto the slip road is not at risk unless some rider has failed to see the white & chequered flags and is still at racing pace, I assume the marshall would see/hear them coming and get off the track. Also in this case unless this was the lead rider they would surely notice other bikes slowing down and signaling their intention to exit the track ?

2/ The green flag waved from the start / finish line has always been unambiguous, waved with vigour and not easily confused with someone moving about in the box holding it (even above their heads).

3/ If the lead riders stop well back from the edge of the track the risk of being hit by a wayward bike is VERY low in my opinion.

4/ The technique for exiting the track, whether at the end of a race or if you cannot continue at racing pace is stressed at EVERY riders brief.

I am usually one of the last to finish a race, but on occasions when I have been lapped I have been on the front row of the slip road and in either case I have never felt that I was at risk, and despite being waved across I can't help myself I always look left before crossing (which would be no help on a counter clockwise circuit )
What constitutes a safe speed on the warm down lap is open to interpretation and some considerable variance, the use of the slip road reduces the time and distance for errors to occour.

[Shaun]

REALLY you guys see the problem here is the use of the slip road thats been in use for over 20 years and not Sloans actions in changing the rules on the spot and putting others lives at risk by crossing the track while machines are still circulating,2 months after a fatality caused by somebody else not following the correct safety protocol????

Jeez Glen atleast Shauns got an excuse,I thought you two would have known better than to condone these sort of irresponsible and dangerous actions,Still we learn something new every day eh!

Billy, slow down and read my post again, or is there a problem with english?

I never condoned any dangerous riding actions, I AGREED that by eliminating the slip road, it eliminated any POTENTUALL dangers from using it

[Shaun]

OK. I'll bite...

Every racer (plus officials and volunteers) signs a waiver that states "Racing is dangerous...etc' This must be signed each and every time someone participates at a race day. Everyone knows that completely eliminating all risk is not possible.

The simple fact is - just being out on the track holds some level of danger. The rules are there to minimise these dangers, and it is expected that everyone will follow them. And that includes following instructions given via flags.
I don't buy Choppa's "I was confused". He is too experienced to not know the rules and what to do at the sliproad.

By saying that roofing is dangerous and that your workers know it is dangerous '' DOES NOT'' Make it any safer

Reccognising POTENTUAL dangerous situations and elliminating them DOES

I clearly see Spyda's intentions with this thread hence I have jumped in, it is to try and eliminate hazards

[codgyoleracer]

Billy, slow down and read my post again, or is there a problem with english?

I never condoned any dangerous riding actions, I AGREED that by eliminating the slip road, it eliminated any POTENTUALL dangers from using it

What he said

[MSTRS:Me]

By saying that roofing is dangerous and that your workers know it is dangerous '' DOES NOT'' Make it any safer

Reccognising POTENTUAL dangerous situations and elliminating them DOES

I clearly see Spyda's intentions with this thread hence I have jumped in, it is to try and eliminate hazards

You miss the point, Shaun...
Racing is dangerous. Fullstop.
There is only one way to eliminate any danger. Don't race. Don't even walk your bike around the track, one at a time.
The slip-road as a point of 'potential' danger is a strawman argument. There is almost zero danger there IF the riders use it according to the rules.
"ALMOST ZERO DANGER" is about all that any rule/s can achieve...BUT...only if the riders etc obey those rules.
And then we come to the subject of COMMONSENSE. Because not every situation is covered by a rule, is it?

[Kevin G]

The green flag to cross the track is displayed at Flag Point 8 (at pit entry - you may not have seen us use this flag point Paul) and, as with all track crossings, Starts, Red Flags, Black Flags, Jump Start Boards etc, is under control of Race Control. They are not used without instruction from Race Control. A flag point cannot even ask to use one.
They only have discretion to use Yellow, Yellow/Orange, and Blue flags.

Bike recovery is under control of Race Control.

If any rider sees something they don't like go see the Riders Rep. Riders Rep then brings it to Race Control. Don't post your concern after the meeting on some website.

You should know this as it's in your rule book. By entering a Race Meeting you have signed a legal, binding contract saying you have read, understood, and will obey it.

Consequences for breaking the rules...some say fine them, that will do or mean bugger all to some or little to others. The best form of punishment is to take away the riders ability to do what he wants and enjoys. Break the rules you go home, day over simple as that. the club can also ban them from the next meeting they are running by simply not accepting the entry. Clubs have the right to decline any entry if the reason is reasonable and of course safety is more than reasonable...that is the only way to get them to listen and respect the rules...hit them where it hurts. Other option is to disqualify them from the results and take away those very clearly prized winter series points....
Other option is to report them to the big bad guys at MNZ and they get their licence suspended, fined or worse....made to do the jobs like flag marshal, sign in help and other organisational tasks so they get an understanding from the organizers point of view....
If the riders get away with it they will continue...strange fact about human nature.

Rules are the rules, riders follow them and officials enforce them. If they need changed follow the correct procedure to do so

I am gobsmacked to see after such awful circumstances that recently occurred at Manfield that such issues are still occurring.

Just my view... criticism can now proceed without delay.

Kevin Goddard

[CHOPPA]

Im not trying to justify my actions. I was in the wrong but it was a mistake in confusing circumstances. There is a little more to it than most of you realise because of what we had gone through after the first race.

Im raising a different point and pointing out a safety concern as this was the point of the thread.

There seems to be 3 sorts of people discussing this thread.

1, People that know fuck all and are jumping on a band wagon.
2, Bureaucrats that like to band together to make sure we all know they are king dingaling
3, Internationally experienced racers

It seems when people are talking about the slip road there is a lot of ifs buts and maybes. Seems like a very easy solution to completely eliminate the problem but there are some egos here that dont want to agree with me. Maybe we could give it a few weeks so they can come up with the solution?

What do you think would happen If there was a potential hazard at work that I identified and provided a solution for the employer and they ignored it and something happened?

My incident has just highlighted how a momentary lapse in concentration or a confusing situation has the potential to end very badly and I would hate to see an accident happen when it is such a simple solution to solve the problem.

Id like to see how anyone can disagree with that....

[Shaun]

Im not trying to justify my actions. I was in the wrong but it was a mistake in confusing circumstances. There is a little more to it than most of you realise because of what we had gone through after the first race.

Im raising a different point and pointing out a safety concern as this was the point of the thread.

There seems to be 3 sorts of people discussing this thread.

1, People that know fuck all and are jumping on a band wagon.
2, Bureaucrats that like to band together to make sure we all know they are king dingaling
3, Internationally experienced racers

It seems when people are talking about the slip road there is a lot of ifs buts and maybes. Seems like a very easy solution to completely eliminate the problem but there are some egos here that dont want to agree with me. Maybe we could give it a few weeks so they can come up with the solution?

What do you think would happen If there was a potential hazard at work that I identified and provided a solution for the employer and they ignored it and something happened?

My incident has just highlighted how a momentary lapse in concentration or a confusing situation has the potential to end very badly and I would hate to see an accident happen when it is such a simple solution to solve the problem.

Id like to see how anyone can disagree with that....

Very rational and logical reply Choppa

Even though I think you're a wanker

[roadracingoldfart]

The green flag IS controlled by Race Control....

Well thanks for that previously known info.

[roadracingoldfart]

The green flag to cross the track is displayed at Flag Point 8 (at pit entry - you may not have seen us use this flag point Paul) and, as with all track crossings, Starts, Red Flags, Black Flags, Jump Start Boards etc, is under control of Race Control. They are not used without instruction from Race Control. A flag point cannot even ask to use one.
They only have discretion to use Yellow, Yellow/Orange, and Blue flags.



If any rider sees something they don't like go see the Riders Rep. Riders Rep then brings it to Race Control. Don't post your concern after the meeting on some website.

You should know this as it's in your rule book. By entering a Race Meeting you have signed a legal, binding contract saying you have read, understood, and will obey it.

My point was Skunk that there appears to be a " human" element in the flag wave , not waved situation , i simply meant there can be no issue with a light (which can be a laser to kill offendes) from the position i mentioned and there can only be track crossing with this light as the Law.
I have seen the flag point and still stick by what i previously said.
I also know what the flag point freedom of display is , i still keep up to some of the regs you know.
I agree with your statement about the riders rep . Bitch when its fresh , not later when you start believing your bullshit after dwelling on it for 2 days or more.
As for your last paragraph , i hope thats not aimed at me cause im a good boy now and dont ride fast anymore.