Innovative Moto Developments IMD250. Now you can help!

[steveyb]

Kevin is right, the bike we are building is really a GPMono bike, not a proper Moto3 bike, as that would require a prototype engine, but "misled" is a very strong word.
Moto 3 is a trademark owned by Dorna, but it would seem that they are happy that the name is used in order to raise its profile internationally.
We are not the first to be trying this concept and indeed GPTech in the USA are about 12 months ahead of us with their 'Moto3' branded bike which uses a Yamaha YZ250F engine.
Also in the USA they are calling their 250 class Moto3, other countries like Australia and UK are calling it Superlite or something similar.
It is just easier to use Moto3 as no one really knows what GPMono is. But the bike itself won't have Moto3 on it, like the GPTech one does.
In the USA and Australia the Moriwaki MD250H bikes (with hop-up kits) are competitive (not saying better, but competitive) with all but the best of their 125GP bikes and riders, so I don't see why that will be any different here, especially on our shortish, slowish circuits.
We believe that our design will be superior to the MD250H, but I guess we will have to wait and see about that won't we.
So this bike is being built to race in our 125GP/250GPMono/Moto3 (whatever we will call it into the future) class.

[jellywrestler]

They used to be allowed in F3 at nationals as well until an RS 125 beat them all and they all had a cry and got them kicked out...

I seem to rememeber a Bears Class getting served by a 14 year old bike an MBA Morbidelli 125 from memory, place stunk of Skunk weed, Body odor and bad breath as they all waved their arms around and kicked up a stink about the Jappa out there.
I laughed so hard I just about fell out of my secretary!

[Kevin G]

I seem to rememeber a Bears Class getting served by a 14 year old bike an MBA Morbidelli 125 from memory, place stunk of Skunk weed, Body odor and bad breath as they all waved their arms around and kicked up a stink about the Jappa out there.
I laughed so hard I just about fell out of my secretary!

Yip I remember that...

[Shaun]

We have managed to secure a TechNZ Getting Started R&D grant, the value of which I am not at liberty to divulge, but really is only enough to 'Get us started' i.e. to tip us over the start line and given that Moto Academy NZ does not make any money, I have been steadfastly unsuccessful in attracting a cash sponsor and I don't have a real job, it is really really difficult to try and make something new happen to actually get ahead and the TechNZ grant and the PledgeMe project are really the only ways.

These grants are 50% reimbursable meaning, you spend the money first, then we will give you half of it back. These are not 'business as usual' grants but are for businesses looking to make a real difference to their business by creating a new product or process or improve one, such as prototyping like we are doing. The money is also not for capital expenditure, unless it is for the expert to make stuff for the prototype. The money is spent on 'experts' which often means scientists, but in our case means experts in frame, suspension, engine, exhaust etc work.

There is a man in Aucland called Douglas Richard-bell, he owns a trendy cafe/restaurant/bar called DEUS motorcycles

I suggest you do some serious research,I do mean SERIOUS, and perhaps a buisness meeting with him Steve could lead to some thing for you, I know he is very genuinlly interested in the future and is a top man

[SWERVE]

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-...end/21087.html
Another "entry level" class for the future.......as you were.

[Billy]

There is a man in Aucland called Douglas Richard-bell, he owns a trendy cafe/restaurant/bar called DEUS motorcycles

I suggest you do some serious research,I do mean SERIOUS, and perhaps a buisness meeting with him Steve could lead to some thing for you, I know he is very genuinlly interested in the future and is a top man

Now that right there is the absolute best input of have seen to this whole idea,As much as I would like too see a Kiwi built machine on the grid anywhere in the world and Steve has some talented peeps onboard with this in the Griffiths boys,Robert at KISS and Glen at Just fairings,There are a number of things that irk me about it all,

Firstly as Kev has pointed out,A little of the info provided is not quite correct,A big no no when approaching anybody for funding,Something you might slip by a public servant dishing out development grants,But certainly not anybody with an ounce of business sense,

Secondly,On the face of it,It appears to be somebody with a pipe dream and no money,Asking the general public to fund them in a business venture they have no money for,I mean seriously,Who is going to own these 2 machines when and if they're built?? When theyre sold where do the profits go? Who will own the company?

Thirdly,We already have 4 amazing talents that desperately need funding to get to Europe right now in Jaden Hassan,Sam Croft,Tyler Lincoln and Aaron Hassan and quite frankly,Thats where I think the joe public money would be better invested and as has already been pointed out Jake is already there flying the Kiwi flag,Clearly the best avenue for getting on the world stage at this point is through Simon Crafar,He has the contacts and the know how required to make it work,I have spoken to him at length about it and his best advice was,If you got somebody you think has the ability,Get him to Europe asap,He can't help anybody while theyre in NZ and it dont matter what they win here.

In short Steve,Take Shauns advice and get a proper business plan drawn up with no grey areas or half truths in it and take it to the corporate world,If the idea stacks up,You shouldnt have any problem selling it as a manufacturing company,Imagine if it worked and you ended up getting paid $100k a year as project/team manager and got to fullfil your dream,BRILLIANT IDEA,EXCELLENT FORESIGHT,TOP TECHNICAL PEEPS ONBOARD,WRONG APPROACH imho,Good luck however it turns out

[steveyb]

Jesus Billy, thanks for that.
Who needs enemies eh?
We have a full business plan, it is alot clearer than the video, which is only one part of the marketing mix, but far too long to include in the Pledgeme project page and the TechNZ people have analysed it. No one is being fleeced, which it seems is the hidden meaning of your post as it is clear what we are trying to achieve. OK, so it is not a true Moto3 bike, but that is a little bit semantic.

If I read your post correctly, Pipe dreams are only available to those who have money. That's the way, keep the ideas guys and those with a dream down, while those who have money by hook or by crook, can make more.

I am investing every cent that I can possibly invest in Moto Academy NZ and the new venture, basically because I have no options as I live in NZ and as a PhD nanomaterials scientist with 20 years experience, over 30 publications including the best science journals in the world, 7 patents and several students supervised, I can't find a job and have not had a real job or real income for over 3 years now. Great eh?

But I am still here and still trying to achieve something.

I am afraid to say though that the world is moving on in many ways. Crowdfunding is just one of those ways. Crowdfunding is not about sponsorship, or one person paying the bills or anyone else paying for the whole thing, as would be the case with a sponsor. It is about using the internet and social media to allow many different people to make a small, or large, contribution to a project simply because they like the idea and want to help. Nothing more nothing less.

Of course I have little money, but I have an idea have been working it up for 6 months now, working on the plan, the team and design aspects. In my book asking a sponsor to pay for such a project would be a more unlikely way to go. When it is working, OK, but at the prototyping phase, that is too early.

I am fully aware of what Simon is doing and agree with him. I know what my limits are and sending a young rider to Europe from NZ with no grounding or experience would be wasting everyones time and money and dreams. A grounding in a certain skill level is necessary.

Thanks for that. Maybe NZ is not the place to try something new with the knocking machine that is extremely well oiled, but the pledgers who are interested in helping seem to disagree. I don't have the thickest skin in the world and these sorts of comments I take to heart quite hard sometimes. Perhaps that means I should just fuck off and leave y'all to it?

[bogan]

I can kind of understand where Billy is coming from. The writeup and lack of clarification of the Moto3 bit does make it sound not the most well thought out. I've recently had some business planning mentoring, using the Business Model Canvas, and its really narrowed down this side of things. Hope it goes well for you guys anyway!

[steveyb]

The Pledgeme project is by necessity quite limited.
As indicated at the start of that page, more information is available on the Moto Academy NZ website which makes things clear, at least it should.

[Billy]

Jesus Billy, thanks for that.
Who needs enemies eh?
We have a full business plan, it is alot clearer than the video, which is only one part of the marketing mix, but far too long to include in the Pledgeme project page and the TechNZ people have analysed it. No one is being fleeced, which it seems is the hidden meaning of your post as it is clear what we are trying to achieve. OK, so it is not a true Moto3 bike, but that is a little bit semantic.

If I read your post correctly, Pipe dreams are only available to those who have money. That's the way, keep the ideas guys and those with a dream down, while those who have money by hook or by crook, can make more.

I am investing every cent that I can possibly invest in Moto Academy NZ and the new venture, basically because I have no options as I live in NZ and as a PhD nanomaterials scientist with 20 years experience, over 30 publications including the best science journals in the world, 7 patents and several students supervised, I can't find a job and have not had a real job or real income for over 3 years now. Great eh?

But I am still here and still trying to achieve something.

I am afraid to say though that the world is moving on in many ways. Crowdfunding is just one of those ways. Crowdfunding is not about sponsorship, or one person paying the bills or anyone else paying for the whole thing, as would be the case with a sponsor. It is about using the internet and social media to allow many different people to make a small, or large, contribution to a project simply because they like the idea and want to help. Nothing more nothing less.

Of course I have little money, but I have an idea have been working it up for 6 months now, working on the plan, the team and design aspects. In my book asking a sponsor to pay for such a project would be a more unlikely way to go. When it is working, OK, but at the prototyping phase, that is too early.

I am fully aware of what Simon is doing and agree with him. I know what my limits are and sending a young rider to Europe from NZ with no grounding or experience would be wasting everyones time and money and dreams. A grounding in a certain skill level is necessary.

Thanks for that. Maybe NZ is not the place to try something new with the knocking machine that is extremely well oiled, but the pledgers who are interested in helping seem to disagree.

Err no,I wasn't suggesting anybody was being fleeced at all,All I was suggesting(and thats all it was) was that you went down the path of gaining financial backing for your project from the corporate sector,Rather than the public domain where people are already struggling and you may or may not gain enough funds to do the job properly as opposed to taking shortcuts towards the end as funds start to dry up,Better in my mind to do the job properly or not at all,Irealise youve probably been door knocking for sponsorship for what must seem like an eternity with little if any success,But this would be different if the person could see it was more than just another punter looking for a free ride,Hell who knows,If you floated the idea of a company that people could buy a share of and get some sort of return on,I think you'd have a better chance of securing a good amount of funding that way,Hell I might even consider putting in $5 or $10k if I thought I was gonna own something at the end and get a return,But I sure aint gonna pour money into a sport I already donate a whole lot of time/money and product to with very little return if any.I can think of 2 or 3 others that think along the same lines as I do and would most likely be interested in an investment as well.

I'm not sure where you get the knocking machine from out of my post,Short of the fact I thought you would be better off approaching the funding differently,As far as the Moto 3 /250 mono thing goes,Yeah to you and I its incidental,But to a corporate its confusing and off putting,To them its like,Wait a minute in paragraph 1 its a Moto3 bike but down in paragraph 5 its a super mono.Pretty sure my post ended with,Good idea,Right peeps and good foresight ????

As far as the unemployment for 3 years goes,Well thats something only you can deal with,Sure you might have plenty of education and possibly could earn a million dollars a year if you could find a job in that area,But you can't and if you really wanted to make this thing work,You'd be shovelling shit or flipping burgers at Mc Ds to make it happen,Not expecting the peeps that do those jobs to fund it for you,Not knocking the idea,Just saying it as I see it,Good luck

[Robert Taylor]

Irrespective of whether there are any flaws or not in Steves business plan there is a reality that here in NZ the fleet of 125s being raced is quite old. So in line with whats happening in the rest of the world this is a logical progression in thinking about what can be done to rejuvenate this very valuable class.
Collectively Steve Bagshaw, Steve Ward, Kevin Goddard and a few others over time have done a stellar job in helping to foster and develop young riders that have progressed on to bigger capacity formulae. Their efforts are not to be understimated or undervalued, given also that in too many instances they have foregone thoughts of own personal luxuries by digging deep into their own pockets to help along riders. Sadly that can leave itself open for being taken for granted.
You can of course purchase a Moto3 bike but not so many Kiwis have the capacity to do that, and any really serious money gets spent in the premier class.
We look at trying to get Kiwis overseas but I see this personally as more of something that will bolster domestic racing.

[Brian d marge]

I to would go down the business plan route ,,,

Even in my small way , prototypes and all it entails , are a sure way to lose money

I can help, with the design in particular setting up an open source design studio/ rapid prototyping ,

Thinking doesn’t cost money , and the more you can do on the computer , the more you can save ,,BUT getting it right is first time is hard !

I can help out , ( and do sometimes, just so forgetful with my bank account numbers sorry, sorry about that )

Good luck , and go for it ...but watch those pennies ......( been there done that, )

Stephen

[steveyb]

Konichiwa Stephen-kun.
You for one, have been so helpfull already it is not funny.
Forgetting those bank acct details will get you in trouble, you know that!

Send me an email with the design aspects you feel you may be able to help with.
I hope you will be able to continue to help as you already have, but you will need to remember that bank acct number at some stage!!

Domo arigato gozaimasu!!

[gammaguy]

I seem to rememeber a Bears Class getting served by a 14 year old bike an MBA Morbidelli 125 from memory, place stunk of Skunk weed, Body odor and bad breath as they all waved their arms around and kicked up a stink about the Jappa out there.
I laughed so hard I just about fell out of my secretary!

I am very familiar with the bike,the guy who rode it and everything about the whole affair.

The BEARS in the late eighties and early nineties especially made a career out of banning anything competitive(read 2T) that beat anything classic(read oil leaking/hellish noisy/old british/4T)

It was the reason I sold my Cagiva and went back to Japanese,in utter disgust of the bull I had to listen to and put up with.

I would hope things have settled down in the BEARS cave since those days.

Back on topic,I tend to feel that the better approach to this will be more succesful if it it pitched as less of a "Kiwis take on the world"and more of a "lets get local riders on board a more relevant bike"

The riders who were and the public at large are hugely more informed now than they were in the nineties,( thanks largely to the internet)when Mr Britten was campaigning his machine,not to mention Kiwis like Mr Crosby and Mr.Turner very nearly winning world championships back in the day.Sadly those days are gone and it is cubic dollars that rule now not cubic centimeters and good riding alone will not get you anywhere near the top.

To garner public support needs an onside and informed support from NZ and I feel a more realistic target will be NZ champs at least to start with.

Realistic targets are more easily achieved and then you have a winner not just a contender.

[steveyb]

Err no,I wasn't suggesting anybody was being fleeced at all,All I was suggesting(and thats all it was) was that you went down the path of gaining financial backing for your project from the corporate sector,Rather than the public domain where people are already struggling and you may or may not gain enough funds to do the job properly as opposed to taking shortcuts towards the end as funds start to dry up,Better in my mind to do the job properly or not at all,Irealise youve probably been door knocking for sponsorship for what must seem like an eternity with little if any success,But this would be different if the person could see it was more than just another punter looking for a free ride,Hell who knows,If you floated the idea of a company that people could buy a share of and get some sort of return on,I think you'd have a better chance of securing a good amount of funding that way,Hell I might even consider putting in $5 or $10k if I thought I was gonna own something at the end and get a return,But I sure aint gonna pour money into a sport I already donate a whole lot of time/money and product to with very little return if any.I can think of 2 or 3 others that think along the same lines as I do and would most likely be interested in an investment as well.

I'm not sure where you get the knocking machine from out of my post,Short of the fact I thought you would be better off approaching the funding differently,As far as the Moto 3 /250 mono thing goes,Yeah to you and I its incidental,But to a corporate its confusing and off putting,To them its like,Wait a minute in paragraph 1 its a Moto3 bike but down in paragraph 5 its a super mono.Pretty sure my post ended with,Good idea,Right peeps and good foresight ????

As far as the unemployment for 3 years goes,Well thats something only you can deal with,Sure you might have plenty of education and possibly could earn a million dollars a year if you could find a job in that area,But you can't and if you really wanted to make this thing work,You'd be shovelling shit or flipping burgers at Mc Ds to make it happen,Not expecting the peeps that do those jobs to fund it for you,Not knocking the idea,Just saying it as I see it,Good luck

Yeah, like I said, thin skin. I take things to heart really badly sometimes. I need to get over that.

The Moto3/GPMono thing is a bit of an issue, but I am not sure how much really. I think that in reality GPMono as a term has been and gone and any bike of the Moto3 type will be referred to as a Moto3, if not already, then in the near future. As suggested, in the USA they are already doing just that.

I would say though, that the crowdfunding thing is part of the new future of how people will achieve projects which they really want to achieve, but don't have the means to do it. The traditional funding bodies and sponsorship routes are being bled out. The internet allows this sort of platform to exist, and at the end of the day, it is the crowd that speaks. There are plenty of projects on PledgeMe and Kickstarter.com (just two of the many pledge sites that exist now) that do not reach their targets. The crowd only funds projects that it thinks are worthy. The crowd makes the judgement on whether they think the people and/or the project are clowns or worth helping. It is the new way where people neither need, nor want equity. Equity is generally available in a project, this one included, if one wants and approaches the team, but it would generally come at a higher price than the $25-250 sort of money pledged via pledge sites. Traditional approaches are slowly disappearing as you realise, small numbers of people don't have large sums to risk on risky prototyping ventures much anymore. But large numbers of people have small amounts of money that they are willing to give just to help someone realise a dream or whatever, if they think it is worthy, fun, exciting, whatever.

The unemployment statement was put in to indicate that I am indeed not just a punter looking for a free ride. I feel my track record speaks for that. But sorry, to suggest that working at MacDonalds is the way to make ends meet is quite condesending. If you could see the pile of reject letters from job applications you would not be saying that, or you might still. In NZ I am too old, over qualified or under experienced. I have lived and worked overseas, so not so keen to do that again, but it might come to that one day. I am doing plenty of odd jobs and selling anything valuable to stay afloat, such as my beloved RS250 that I spent years working up to just where I wanted it to be. But needs must eh?

Anyway, I guess there are those out there who don't know me and might see all this as being quite defensive, but I feel that if you believe in an idea and yourself you should defend them.

Cheers.