Oil lube and seizure, not for Husaberg as it will bore you

[Crasherfromwayback]

Not sure how you can state 800 is a motocross oil & that it will be formulated to work in those conditions and not others? That sounds like Pit Myth.


I've used 800 in my 50 revving to 14,000 for years & you would struggle to find a harder working bucket engine in the country (or maybe that's just my clutch). I've meant to experiment with lower ratios that 30:1 to see if it helped power on the dyno, but never gotten around to it. I run a (carefully chamfered) single port with a square top at 75% width. I have never ever ever had an issue with ring or scoring.


I don't believe you have an oil problem other than it is being removed.

Our dyno seems to think 20:1 makes more torque and power than 30:1. Better ring sealing perhaps.

[F5 Dave]

That may depend on oil viscosity & type, certainly it was the case with older oils, but thanks, it tends to indicate that I should get off my arse & try more oil.

[Crasherfromwayback]

That may depend on oil viscosity & type, certainly it was the case with older oils, but thanks, it tends to indicate that I should get off my arse & try more oil.

My RS250 certainly went better at 20:1 than 30:1 back in the day too. But I've no doubt oil technology has come a long way since then.

[F5 Dave]

guess one could find as a ring wears more oil may help seal things & air cooled its bound to help as looser. Worth some testing on specific bikes, don't know why I've not gotten around to it, suppose once you have jetting nailed you kinda want to keep the applecart steady.

[ac3_snow]

I vaguely remember a dyno comparison, most likely in the Graham Bell book. Where it showed the change in power from various oil mixes, if I remember correctly more oil (i.e. 20:1) showed a lightly better output than less (50:1) but plugs would obviously foul more often with a more oil rich mixture.

[F5 Dave]

Yes but they were using old Castrol TT so 30 years of oil development.

You won't foul plugs in a race bike unless it is jetted silly

[F5 Dave]

Just had a look and it's the one with a dirt bike on the front, not going to give it a 2nd chance so will be trying the Klotz R50.
Like Dave I would be amazed if the motul was any different apart from the labeling.

Anyway, what have you done to fix the problem? Looking at the piston I thought it was the rear due to ring gap, but looking again, just one ring twisted around & that must be the front which makes a whole heap more sense.

So why did it do this? Really it was not the oil. So what went wrong? What other damage was there? Jetting, air leak is my guess, but possibly timing, plug, petrol, usually there would be more clues for this.

Incidentally was just speaking to a Kart chap locally & he runs Motul through everything he & his customers use since the 90s & says he has never seen an oil related failure.

[cotswold]

Anyway, what have you done to fix the problem? Looking at the piston I thought it was the rear due to ring gap, but looking again, just one ring twisted around & that must be the front which makes a whole heap more sense.

So why did it do this? Really it was not the oil. So what went wrong? What other damage was there? Jetting, air leak is my guess, but possibly timing, plug, petrol, usually there would be more clues for this.

Incidentally was just speaking to a Kart chap locally & he runs Motul through everything he & his customers use since the 90s & says he has never seen an oil related failure.

You are probably right, the motor was ripped out of a bike that had spent the last 5 years in a barn, the jetting was done on the dyno as was the ignition timing , the rings did look to be past their prime.
I am going to ask a stupid question but would an air leak from the exhaust flange cause this ?

I may answer this myself with some reading .

Ok looks like a can of worms, air leak from mains? too much advance or too lean..
I am thinking of going safe ( I hope ) and retarding the advance a degree or 6 and going up a couple of jet sizes.. Does anyone know how to do a leak test to check the seals? as I should probably do that first.

[F5 Dave]

yes yes & yes. Old rings, air cooled engine, jetting possibly different requirement from the day was done on the dyno & some set ups like to be richer at the track. Worn seals, ex flange leak. yes yes & yes.

That was your real problem. The oil is totally a wild goose chase. really. but I will accept the remains of the bottle as payment to take that old rubbish off your hands.

Leak down tester is easy enough, do a search, or even in maintenance bit & use my name in advanced, I've explained my set up a few times.

[cotswold]

I originally pulled over as the exhaust stud pulled out and what i thought was the flange rattling in the cylinder may have been pinging which would cause the scoring on the exhaust side of the piston.
I found this article interesting
http://www.enginelogics.com/detonation.html


also this
http://klemmvintage.com/deto.htm

This bit:

Ignition Timing and Curves - Most ignitions on vintage air-cooled 2strokes were “straight firing” ignitions. Straight firing means that the ignition timing value did not change with RPMS. When the timing was set at 2.0mm BTDC, it fired that value at idle…and at 12000 rpm. Advancing the ignition timing on these straight-firing ignitions resulted in better acceleration, but a very high risk of deto at peak rpms. Conversely, more retarded ignition timings offered a big margin of safety from deto at sustained high rpm applications, but harmed mid-range acceleration.

[RDjase]

Who sells Elf in NZ?

Is Elf the bike side of Total Oils?

Google failed to find anything apart from a 3 year old listing for a Kart shop and a USA site that didnt even show 909 in there bike oils. Was probably more me than google...............................

Need some HTX909 as recomended by Wobbly for the RS125,

[richban]

Who sells Elf in NZ?

Is Elf the bike side of Total Oils?

Google failed to find anything apart from a 3 year old listing for a Kart shop and a USA site that didnt even show 909 in there bike oils. Was probably more me than google...............................

Need some HTX909 as recomended by Wobbly for the RS125,

There was a place in Petone I will try find the name for yah.

Edit. These are the guys I got some elf running in oil from.

http://www.extremeautomotive.co.nz

Phone 569 6285

[ac3_snow]

Who sells Elf in NZ?

Is Elf the bike side of Total Oils?

Google failed to find anything apart from a 3 year old listing for a Kart shop and a USA site that didnt even show 909 in there bike oils. Was probably more me than google...............................

Need some HTX909 as recomended by Wobbly for the RS125,

http://www.finda.co.nz/business/list...icants-nz-ltd/
Based in Papakura, Auckland - possibly the distributors

http://www.elf.co.nz/
"future site of Elf NZ" but they have an 0800 number to call for info.

[F5 Dave]

There was a place in Petone I will try find the name for yah.

Edit. These are the guys I got some elf running in oil from.

http://www.extremeautomotive.co.nz

Phone 569 6285

They are in Lower hutt, I almost drive past them every day but never been in there. Did they carry 2 stroke oil?

[TZ350]

Need some HTX909 as recomended by Wobbly for the RS125,

Google failed to find anything ... Was probably more me than google...............................

http://www.edgeparts.co.nz/shop/Shop...09-C18B1L.html

http://www.adl.co.nz/Parts/35453/

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-...-250749047.htm
KartZone is and Authorised dealer of new Arrow Racing Karts, Parts, and Apparel. KartZone also supply second hand karts and parts

http://www.kartingdirect.co.nz/catal...8f5dbbe64204d6

http://www.adl.co.nz/Catalogue/Elf+Lubricants/