Old multi-cylinder bikes of the 50s to later on. Japanese, British, Euro, etc

[avgas]

1968 Suzuki RP68 50cc triple - 19 hp @ 19,000rpm
engine
cranks
so - is it a V3, or with 3 seperate cranks, a W3?

Something else.
Its really 2 engines geared to a single drive shaft. A square 2 + single.
V (or W) implies that the forces on the cranks are at different angles (e.g. 1 crank, 2+ conrods @ angle). This is purely rotational torque on the crank (due to gears) - similar force to rotary engine on crank.
Exception to this rule would be a V engine that covers 360 degrees of the crank at equal spacing, with more than 2 pistons. e.g 4 pistons @ 90 degrees from each other. 8 @ 45 degrees....as the "V" effect is broken creating similar characteristics to balanced inline.

Angle of 180 degrees can't be a V anymore. Flat.

[Grumph]

Something else.
Its really 2 engines geared to a single drive shaft. A square 2 + single.
V (or W) implies that the forces on the cranks are at different angles (e.g. 1 crank, 2+ conrods @ angle). This is purely rotational torque on the crank (due to gears) - similar force to rotary engine on crank.
Exception to this rule would be a V engine that covers 360 degrees of the crank at equal spacing, with more than 2 pistons. e.g 4 pistons @ 90 degrees from each other. 8 @ 45 degrees....as the "V" effect is broken creating similar characteristics to balanced inline.

Angle of 180 degrees can't be a V anymore. Flat.

Your example of a four with cylinders at 90 deg spacing is in fact a radial....not a Vee.

180 degree twin is most definitely a Vee and from construction/design/balance standpoints is considered as such. As already stated it is the extreme case...

[avgas]

Your example of a four with cylinders at 90 deg spacing is in fact a radial....not a Vee.

180 degree twin is most definitely a Vee and from construction/design/balance standpoints is considered as such. As already stated it is the extreme case...

You're good at reading......you clearly missed the whole thing where I said if V's were balanced they are not V anymore....... (hint: "exception to this rule is......"). While most are radial, I have seen ones that aren't (cylinders forwards and backwards on the shaft).

180 twin is not a V as one counteracts the other. Boxer/Flat whatever you want to call it. Is 180 degrees and obtuse or acute angle in your wonderful world? It needs to be one or the other to be a V.

[Yow Ling]

Your example of a four with cylinders at 90 deg spacing is in fact a radial....not a Vee.

180 degree twin is most definitely a Vee and from construction/design/balance standpoints is considered as such. As already stated it is the extreme case...

I thought all the radials were an uneven number of cylinder 5, 7 , 9

[husaberg]

Least I don't keep quoting embedded images or hack shit off the internet and actually post threads in the proper sub forums

Don't have to post a pic because I already did with that image, just pushed it the same way you're pushing the Suzuki as a V4
Though the quote from the article compiled by Phil Vincent in 1967 reads:

"At the end of 1965 Yamaha revealed their new 250cc V4 at Monza, also a disc valved two-stroke, but water-cooled, reputed to give 60 bhp. It returned a top speed of 150mph through the speed trap in the Isle of Man in 1966. It had 8 speeds and ran up to 14,000 rpm.
This engine is virtually two of the successful 125cc twins built over a common crankcase with geared crankshafts


It is hard to handle due to the combined effects of weight and high centre of gravity. Maybe we shall see its full potential this year?"

You don't have to a genius to access information on engine configurations and what each design term means.

Enough...... enough..... so you are saying even Phil calls it a V4 in your example.... Yam calls it a V4 in your other example .......good enough for me
Moving on..........
I hacked this off the Net.1962 RC112 (50cc twin) carbs

Worth a look herehttp://velobanjogent.blogspot.co.nz/...114-rc115.html


note the front brake.

[avgas]

I thought all the radials were an uneven number of cylinder 5, 7 , 9

Yep. Radial means no opposing cylinders. But he missed the point that when you have 180 degree angle....its no longer a V. Radial is the exception to the V rule as the "V"s perform full 360 rotation.

[Grumph]

Yep. Radial means no opposing cylinders. But he missed the point that when you have 180 degree angle....its no longer a V.

Interesting you've tried to pull me up only on the 180 degree Vee and ignored the 360 degree Vee or parallel twin....As i have said, and will repeat ad nauseum they are the extremes of the type.

frankly doris i couldn't give a flying...what you think. Agree to disagree and get back to reality please.

[dangerous]

what are we debating here? cos ya all lost me

Radial = pots in a radial format
Vee = pots in a V format
Paralell = pots side by side
Square = pots in a square format
Ell = pots in a L format
Tandom = KR
Transverse = any formate with crank (cranks) laying paralell with the bike
Flat = the pots are on their farking flat

all reguardles off number of cranks

[cotswold]

check out the hp per ltr.

[husaberg]

Yamaha Photobomb
i will edit it of course.

The OW61 was not only the first YZR500 to mount a V4 engine, it was also the first ever by any manufacturer for a two-stroke GP500 machine. The other definitive features of this model were its innovative lateral rear suspension with the shock positioned at a 90-degree angle to the direction of forward motion and a unique frame that eliminated the under-loop, which would become the forerunner of Yamaha's famous Deltabox frame. This was the model that pioneered the two-stroke V4 engine that would eventually become the standard in GP500 racing. After winning the season opener of the '82 GP on the square-four OW60, Roberts switched to a new V4 engine OW61 for round two at Salzburgring. In this, the OW61's debut race, Roberts finished third. Riding the OW61 at round four in Jarama, Roberts beat his personal best lap time by a full second on his way to the win.


OW70 (1983)- Arrival of the Deltabox frame
The 1983 model YZR500 (OW70) was the second-generation V4 powered machine and the first to adopt Yamaha's new aluminium Deltabox frame and 17-inch front wheel. Further maturation of the previous year's OW61 and an increase in inertial mass for the flywheel helped handling stability, while overall competitiveness was also improved with the adoption of a new rear suspension (mid-season change from bell crank type to bottom-link type) and revision of frame rigidity. This year Kenny Roberts on the OW70 and Freddie Spencer on the three-cylinder Honda NS500 staged a head-to-head battle that continued to the final round, were Spencer won the title by a hair's breadth. It had been one of the greatest showdowns in GP history with each rider winning six rounds and three second places and each winning six pole positions. Roberts finished this '83 season a close second while Eddie Lawson also riding the OW70, finished fourth.

OW76 of 1984
OW76 (1984) - Lawson's first title
The OW76 spec that appeared in 1984 was characterized by the change from the rotary disc valve intake system used up until the OW70 to a crankcase reed valve system. By making effective use of the crankcase reed valve intake that was coming into use at the time with a plastic resin reed, this model achieved smoother power development and better starting character. The system adopted a structure in which the rotary disc valve drive axis positioned on the upper portion of the crankcase was replaced by a reed chamber. At the time, Yamaha was already using a crankcase reed valve system on its Mate utility motorcycle series, but its adoption on the YZR500 brought a whole new image to this technology. In his second year of GP competition, Eddie Lawson had become Yamaha's ace rider, winning the season opener, the South Africa GP, and going on to claim his first title with four wins during this year's series.


OW81 (1985-86) - Opposed revolution twin cranks
The OW81 spec used in 1985 and '86 adopted a V4 engine completely redesigned with the aim of making the engine a member contributing to handling stability. On the conventional V-4 engine, both crankshafts were made to revolve in the direction of forward motion. With the OW81, however, the two shafts were spun in opposite directions (rear shaft in the in the direction of forward motion and front shaft in the opposite direction) with the drive force being drawn from the rear shaft. This minimized the gyro moment effect on handling stability, thus contributing to outstanding handling stability. In '85 Lawson rode this machine to second place in the season ranking and Christian Sarron finished third on it as well. The further evolved '86 version featured boosted power output (140PS to 145PS) optimized dimensions and a new seat shape. On this machine Lawson won back the GP title, his second. Meanwhile, in the All Japan Championships, Tadahiko Taira won his third consecutive 500cc title on this machine, which would remain the base model as the YZR500 continued to evolve into the '90s.


Wayne Rainey's 1987 OW86
OW86 (1987)- Yamaha's fourth manufacturers title
To accommodate the new noise regulation went into effect in the GP from the 1987 season, changes were made in the exhaust system, including a lengthening of the tail pipe to reduce the noise level from 110 to 105 decibels. At the same time, the maturation of the model continued with improvements like a revised engine position, increased radiator capacity and improved cooling performance with an expansion of the air duct. The power output was also boosted from over 145PS to over 148PS. This year (1987) the first 500cc class Japan round of the World GP at the Suzuka circuit and Randy Mamola won it in the rain on the OW86. That season Lawson won six rounds and Mamola three to give Yamaha its fourth manufacturers championship.


OW98 (1988)- Right-side twin mufflers
On the OW98 that made its appearance in 1988 the V bank was opened from 60 to 70 degrees. This change was made to gain more area for the reed valve itself and more space to increase intake volume than the original V4 block which had been designed for the rotary disc intake system. Also, a new exhaust layout was adopted in which the exhaust pipes from the lower (front) two cylinders were crossed once under the engine and then both brought out on the right rear side. To accommodate this, a left-right asymmetrical rear arm with a large curve on the upper right side was adopted.

This year, Lawson won seven rounds of the GP500 series to claim his third title. Kevin Magee and Wayne Rainey also won one round each on the YZR500 to give Yamaha its third consecutive and fifth overall manufacturers title. In the twelfth round of the series at Donington Park, Rainey won on a YZR500 after adopting a carbon front disc brake for the first time.


OWA8 (1989) - Data-recording device introduced
The OWA8 that appeared in 1989 was characterized by the introduction of a full-fledged data recording function that recorded data from sensors about the running conditions of the machine throughout the duration of its run. With its ability to record data about a wide range of factors including engine rpm, bike speed, suspension stroke, steering angle during turns, combustion chamber temperature and detonation, this machine proved to be extremely helpful in providing numerical information that could be shared by the engineers, mechanics, developers and riders to help in determining directions for settings. This year Lawson scored three wins to finish the season in second place, followed by Christian Sarron in third. Meanwhile, in the All Japan Championships, Norihiko Fujiwara grabbed his third consecutive season title on this machine.


OWC1 (1990) - Rainey wins world title
The OWC1 spec that Yamaha rolled out in 1990 had improved handling stability due to dimension changes including a head pipe position that was closer to the rider than the conventional machine and a lower caster angle. The power output was also increased to 155PS from 150PS for the previous year's model. On this machine Rainey won a total of seven rounds to claim his first GP title. This contributed to Yamaha's sixth manufactures championship. This OWC1 would also be the base machine that Yamaha would offer to European constructors in 1992 in the form of engine sales and chassis data as a move to stimulate the sport of motorcycle racing and encourage technology sharing. This would lead to Harris Yamaha and ROC Yamaha entering machines based on the OWC1.


OWD3 (1991)- The machine Rainey rode to title two
Due in part to the new regulation that required 500s to weigh more than 130 kg, the OWD3 spec introduced in 1991 sought to increase competitiveness with the adoption of an electronic-control suspension (CES). It also adopted a full-fledged adjustable pivot assembly designed to hold the influence of return force from the road surface on the chain tension to a minimum while also enabling setting adjustments to accommodate different course conditions. Rainey won six rounds of the '91 series on this machine to claim his second world title. John Kocinski also won one round to help bring Yamaha its seventh manufacturers title. This OWD3 was also ridden to a series title in the All Japan Championships by Peter Goddard. This gave Yamaha the greatest number of titles of any maker in the 13-year history (1981-1993) of the All Japan 500cc class with eight.


OWE0 (1992) - Rainey's third title
The OWE0 that appeared in 1992 boasted a power output of 160PS, up from 155PS the year before. Also, based on the premise that torque character is the product of a combination of combustion torque and inertial torque from the revolution of the crankshaft, a new phased simultaneous combustion interval (the diagonally opposed cylinders fired simultaneously at a 0-degree and 90-degree interval as opposed to the previous 180-degree interval) was adopted from the ninth round of this year's series, the Hungary GP. This improved traction in the low- to mid-speed range and power coming out of the turns. On this machine Rainey won his third title in as many years. Kocinski also scored one win and finished the season in third place.


Rainey's OWF2 of 1993
OWF2 (1993)- Adopting an extruded aluminium frame
In order to accommodate a new engine with boosted power output of 170PS (160PS for the previous year), the OWF2 that Yamaha rolled out in 1993 featured a frame designed for greater rigidity. The aluminium used in main frame was changed from three-section extruded stock that provided much greater rigidity, especially with regards to lateral torsion. Rainey rode this machine from the opening round of the '93 series to round seven, the Dutch GP, scoring wins in the Malaysia GP and the Japan GP and contributing to Yamaha's eighth manufacturers title. From round eight, Rainey rode a ROC Yamaha machine (with the same type of frame as the OWC1) constructed in Europe with Yamaha technological assistance.


OWF9 (1994-95) - Forced air box boosts performance
The 1994 model OWF9 was the machine that Luca Cadalora rode throughout that year's GP series to second place for the season with wins at the U.S. GP and the Barcelona GP. While the OWF2 spec of the previous year had featured an extruded aluminium frame, further pursuit of power development and rigidity balance factors led to a return to a panel stock aluminium frame with this model. Based on development efforts to improve the aerodynamic characteristics over preceding models led to a cowl design that shifted the air intake mouth toward the inside. Norick Abe became a full-time competitor on this machine starting from this year's British GP.

A further matured version of the OWF9 was also used in the '95 season, characterized by features like a full-fledged ram-air function for the air box produced at Yamaha's London R&D base, Activa, that increased intake performance.


OWJ1 (1996) - Adoption of a 54mm bore piston
The major new feature of the OWJ1 spec YZR500 introduced in 1996 was the new engine with a 54mm bore. By squaring off the bore x stroke at 54mm x 54mm, compared to the previous 56mm x 50.6mm, this engine succeeded in boosting top speed through a better balance of power and torque character based on total intake/exhaust efficiency rather than simply raising rpm. This model was also characterized by its forged "powder metal" piston with excellent heat resistance qualities and a new frame design that eliminated the seat rail. Riding this machine, Norick Abe shaved an amazing two seconds off the fastest lap time at the Japan GP preliminaries and went on to win the race for his first GP victory. Loris Capirossi also won a round this year on the OWJ1 at the Australian GP.


OWH0 (1997) - V bank widened to 75 degrees
On the OWH0 spec introduced in 1997, the "V" bank of the engine was widened from 70 to 75 degrees in order to allow an increased air box capacity. A "T" type exhaust port (conventional three-port to two-port) known for its excellent pick-up characteristics was also tested on this model, along with adoption of a new crank assembly spec and a higher drive shaft position for improved handling stability. On this machine Cadalora mounted the winners podium twice with second place finishes and twice with third place to finished the season ranked sixth, while Abe ranked seventh.
(The OWH0 and OWJ1 were actually developed simultaneously and their eventual years of actual GP use happened to come in reverse of the alphabetical order of their code names.)

Abe's 1998 OWK1
OWK1 (1998-99) - Non-leaded arrives
The 1998 YZR500 (OWK1) was a non-leaded gasoline spec in line with the revised GP regulation. The combined effect of improvements including revised compression ratio, new muffler shape, change to a Keihin carburettor (previous models used Mikuni), reduction of crankcase power loss and boosted cooling capacity served to achieve outstanding performance. Also the angle of the engine's V bank was returned to 70 degrees. Despite the non-leaded spec, this machine produced course records on many of the GP courses. Ridden by Jean-Michel Bayle, Norick Abe, Simon Crafar and Regis Laconi, the machine continued to mature through the season, with Crafar winning his first GP race on it at the British GP.

In '99, Max Biaggi and Carlos Checa joined the Yamaha riders and the OWK1 continued to mature, with Biaggi, Abe and Laconi each winning one round this year. On Biaggi's machine, wings were added on the right and left sides of the front cowl in mid-season to improve road contact feeling for the front wheel, but due to the problem of balance with the down-force characteristics during full banking on turns, they were removed again in the latter half of the season.


OWK6 (2000)- Yamaha's ninth manufacturers title
The OWK6 model of 2000 was a further evolution of the OWK1 of the previous year and it achieved higher levels of acceleration and top speed performance due to improvements including new cylinder, cylinder head and exhaust pipe specs and revision of several parts of the performance-boosting engine management system. Also review of the dimensions and geometry led to a new cowl shape. With Garry McCoy's three wins, Biaggi's two and Abe's one, this machine brought Yamaha its ninth manufacturers championship after a seven-year hiatus.


OWL6 (2001)- Biaggi second in championship
The OWL6 spec of 2001 took the existing model as its base and added revisions relating to driveability including new cylinder, cylinder head and exhaust pipe specs, changes in the performance characteristics of the YPVS system and mapped ignition timing control that contributed to increased acceleration and top speed performance. Revisions in the dimensions also added to the pick-up coming out of the turns. This model also featured long and short type rear arm options to fit the characteristics of the different riders. Biaggi scored three wins this year to place second in the season ranking.


OWL9 (2002)- The 28th and last generation YZR500
Of all the YZR500 models that had actually competed in GP races since its debut in 1973, the OWL9 that appeared in 2002 represented the 28th and last generation model. The engine was positioned farther forward than that of the OWL6 of the previous year while the centre of gravity was also raised slightly in order to secure the desired front weight distribution. Weight was reduced through full-fledged thinning efforts on the rear arm. In this year's GP regulation that had two-stroke and four-stroke machines competing together, the great competitive potential of the YZR500 was proven once again when Olivier Jacque won the pole position at the German GP on this machine and Abe finished the season ranked sixth.

http://www.mcnews.com.au/features/20...tory_Page9.htm

[dangerous]

Yamaha Photobomb
i will edit it of course.

and there we have a V4 twin crank

[mr bucketracer]

love the 50cc four stroke would love to own one but that will never happen! so maybe build something that looks close.. the 2 strokers just don't have the apeal for me

[husaberg]

This is one of the most exquisite bikes ever made ever made. er....i don't like Suzukis either. Note the Aluminium Frame

This vid of another thread is also well worth a watch to.

[dangerous]

Barry Sheene

it was 1999 I was living in Brisbane... took a hoon down to Nerang 12 bike shops in a row.. went into the MV dealers and was standing there ogling over the 1st F4, 74k it was chatting to this guy which was up with the info and very interesting to listen to, introed himself as barry... any way was time to leave as a sales rep came over, I was walking away and herd the rep say "helow Mr Sheene" was half way down the road when it clicked... FUCK, fuck me...

[husaberg]

it was 1999 I was living in Brisbane... took a hoon down to Nerang 12 bike shops in a row.. went into the MV dealers and was standing there ogling over the 1st F4, 74k it was chatting to this guy which was up with the info and very interesting to listen to, introed himself as barry... any way was time to leave as a sales rep came over, I was walking away and herd the rep say "helow Mr Sheene" was half way down the road when it clicked... FUCK, fuck me...

If ya seen the video ya might have been lucky. that you weren't in a mini skirt.
The old man knows Hugh i should see if i can hit him up for some pics........

I know where you mean with the bike shops too its like a strip mall.