Red Flags - Should you get points if you cause a red flag event and DNF?

[Biggles08]

As the title says.

I have submitted s request for this rule to be looked at and changed as I believe if you DNF a race you DNF a race and should be awarded no points for that race as though it had been completed.

Currently it goes back a lap from the time the red flag is shown and points/positions are awarded based on this previous lap regardless if you actually caused/were involved in the Red Flag incident or not. This has been a rule I have never agreed with and find completely illogical and unfair to those who manage to stay on.

I have suggested:

"to gain points in a race that is 'called' due to a red flag being displayed, you need to be able to get yourself and your motorcycle safely back to pit lane under your own effort (ie no assistance from recovery vehicles) within 5 minutes of the red flag being displayed. If you are unable to do this you forfeit any points/positions for that race and the next position behind would move forward into this placing. This would also apply to any 2^nd rider (3^rd, 4^th etc) who may have been caught up in the red flag incident also."

What are your thoughts on this?

[Shorty_925]

Like this crash : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxH_jlqtwG0 was in last weekends WSS, he still got 6th for the race, yet caused the red flag.

[scott411]

its always been a tricky one to call, because i agree the prime cause should be excluded, but innocent parties may get done as well, say someone dropped a heap of oil and 5 guys went down on it in one laps, should all of those riders be excluded?

or what would happen if you stopped to help a rider that was in a bad way? (not really a road race thing but these rules cover MX as well)

[Biggles08]

its always been a tricky one to call, because i agree the prime cause should be excluded, but innocent parties may get done as well, say someone dropped a heap of oil and 5 guys went down on it in one laps, should all of those riders be excluded?

Yes....shit happens all the time when racing and I've been taken out on more than one occassion at no fault of mine...but thats racing. The rules all of a sudden change when the race is red flagged then everyone wants a piece of the points. If the same circumstance you describe happened in a race yet the Red flag was not shown for what ever reason, none of those downed riders would get any points so its no different.

or what would happen if you stopped to help a rider that was in a bad way? (not really a road race thing but these rules cover MX as well)

Road racing you should NEVER stop on the track whatsoever so this rule would only apply to road racing not MX.

[neil_cb125t]

hey dude

Its a tricky one - it used to be if the race didn’t make a % of 'completeness' then that race was officially called and then ANOTHER race was run and the points are split between those two races, . I.e when I high sided at the Esses and got a free ambo ride, I claimed full points for the first race (12.5) then the following separate race I didn't claim any due to missing it.

I don’t think that it’s the fairest system – seems to back up the crasher…..i won the championship due to it. Simpler is def better, maybe if the race is restarted then all participants must restart the race to gain points from the first race….. no time limits just be there when the reds go out. If you DNS in the restart you miss out points from both……basically means crashers who don’t restart loss out.

An innocent victim to the crash yeah it sucks but again if he/she makes it out there then awesome – if not then they can’t continue anyway.

As the title says.

I have submitted s request for this rule to be looked at and changed as I believe if you DNF a race you DNF a race and should be awarded no points for that race as though it had been completed.

Currently it goes back a lap from the time the red flag is shown and points/positions are awarded based on this previous lap regardless if you actually caused/were involved in the Red Flag incident or not. This has been a rule I have never agreed with and find completely illogical and unfair to those who manage to stay on.

I have suggested:

"to gain points in a race that is 'called' due to a red flag being displayed, you need to be able to get yourself and your motorcycle safely back to pit lane under your own effort (ie no assistance from recovery vehicles) within 5 minutes of the red flag being displayed. If you are unable to do this you forfeit any points/positions for that race and the next position behind would move forward into this placing. This would also apply to any 2^nd rider (3^rd, 4^th etc) who may have been caught up in the red flag incident also."

What are your thoughts on this?

[Biggles08]

hey dude

Its a tricky one - it used to be if the race didn’t make a % of 'completeness' then that race was officially called and then ANOTHER race was run and the points are split between those two races, . I.e when I high sided at the Esses and got a free ambo ride, I claimed full points for the first race (12.5) then the following separate race I didn't claim any due to missing it.

Thats not being 'called' then chappy, thats being 'restarted.' If the race has complete and they 'call' the race completed (as its gone past the % required to be called complete) then there is no chance to restart and the crasher gets the points. Thats not right. If you DNF you should not be able to score points...thats pretty simple.

[tigertim20]

As the title says.

I have submitted s request for this rule to be looked at and changed as I believe if you DNF a race you DNF a race and should be awarded no points for that race as though it had been completed.

Currently it goes back a lap from the time the red flag is shown and points/positions are awarded based on this previous lap regardless if you actually caused/were involved in the Red Flag incident or not. This has been a rule I have never agreed with and find completely illogical and unfair to those who manage to stay on.

I have suggested:

"to gain points in a race that is 'called' due to a red flag being displayed, you need to be able to get yourself and your motorcycle safely back to pit lane under your own effort (ie no assistance from recovery vehicles) within 5 minutes of the red flag being displayed. If you are unable to do this you forfeit any points/positions for that race and the next position behind would move forward into this placing. This would also apply to any 2^nd rider (3^rd, 4^th etc) who may have been caught up in the red flag incident also."

What are your thoughts on this?

my thoughts on this is that you will have guys who drag the meeting out, by walking their bike to the finish line in order to get those points, especially at nationals rounds, and especially if they were running in the top group

[Biggles08]

my thoughts on this is that you will have guys who drag the meeting out, by walking their bike to the finish line in order to get those points, especially at nationals rounds, and especially if they were running in the top group

".....to be able to get yourself and your motorcycle safely back to pit lane...."

Walking your bike on the track is NOT safe and would not be allowed...not to mention there are no points for coming last anyway....which you surely would if you are walking.

[Maido]

I don't agree, i think it is stink if you get taken out. However it would tidy it up so it is probably a good thing. Not every rule can please everyone and I can happily accept that.
What do they do in WSS, WSBK, ASBK etc? surely if it is good enough for them....

[Biggles08]

I don't agree, i think it is stink if you get taken out. However it would tidy it up so it is probably a good thing. Not every rule can please everyone and I can happily accept that.
What do they do in WSS, WSBK, ASBK etc? surely if it is good enough for them....

I understand in MotoGP its a 5 minute rule but can't confirm that. Apparently in WSBK they go back a lap according to Shorty_925 as quoted earlier. Can't confirm.

And yes it is stink if you get taken out but how can you rule on that one?!

[jellywrestler]

".....to be able to get yourself and your motorcycle safely back to pit lane...."

yep and if you've crashed and damaged the crankcases and oil is pissing out without you knowing....

of course oil has only ever leaked from sidecars so the solos are A OK

[Maido]

I think these doays most solos have protector engine covers to prevent this. It should be a complusary thing I think, i believe it is in most domestic series around the place. it saves oil splills and engine covers = win both ways.

[CHOPPA]

I would completely support that rule change. It rewards people for getting the race red flagged. I have seen people milk it.....

If you crash your out hard luck. If you get taken out, hard luck. If the race wasnt red flagged you wouldnt finish anyway

[discodan]

Good call Marcus.

BSB have implemented this and it has worked well except for one inccident when a rider took a bunch of other riders out when his bike left oil on the track.

I think it should be implemented here and all other championships. From memory the wording of the rule over there is that everyone who is 'on their bike' at the time of the red flag is allowed to restart. The only problem I have with a 5 min rule is that it still leaves it open to riders who intentionally lay prone until a red flag comes out, they could still have time to ride their bike back to the pits if it is not too damaged.

[Peter Smith]

I would completely support that rule change. It rewards people for getting the race red flagged. I have seen people milk it.....

If you crash your out hard luck. If you get taken out, hard luck. If the race wasnt red flagged you wouldnt finish anyway

I was racing at Hampton Downs, got into second place and was chasing the leader when he highsided, the race was red flaged and called complete. He still won, WTF.
It is still a tough call wether to change the rules as in most cases it seems fair.