Made in Korea

[mashman]

Pharmac under fire over new meters

"The drug-buying agency is going to get the meters from Korean supplier CareSens, and it will be the only type that is subsidised."

"At present it buys meters from several manufacturers and Pharmac says the move will save $10 million a year.

It will use $4 million of that to subsidise insulin pumps, which will be funded nationwide for the first time."

""When consultation meetings were held around the country - at short notice and inconveniently - those people able to attend were furious and bewildered at why something which wasn't broken needed to be fixed."

NZ First's health spokeswoman, Barbara Stewart, says hundreds of thousands of diabetics will have to rely on "unknown" meters.

"The government and Pharmac care more about money than they do about people," she said."

If there's 150,000 registered diabetics and there'll be Free insulin pumps for those with diabetes the Pharmac CEO "says the project will cost about $4 million per year, for about 800 patients.". That must be some pump for 5k. Wonder how much the meters will cost?

[awa355]

My wife is a Diabetic 2. Her meter is an Accu Chek , made in the USA. Now there's a lot of American things I dont like, but I would have to say, I would have more faith in Medical technology from the states, than a 'cheap' asian diagnostic device.

For Pharmac to say they are not looking at the bottam dollar signs would be crap.

[GTRMAN]

I am a type 2 diabetic, I have friends who are insulin dependant, these new meters have a much higher margin for error compared to the current crop. People are going to die.

[Paul in NZ]

I'm a type 1 diabetic and I use my meter 4 or 5 times a day, I really depend on it and frankly I'm not worried in the slightest.

ALL of the current meters reps and the literature understate the accuracy of their current meters as it is, they are all trading accuracy for speed and usability. Don't believe me, try one and test say 5 times in a row - some days all reading will be the same - another day they will vary considerably. More so if you test a sample from different sites.

Spot on accuracy and keeping the blood sugar level as low as possible within the permissible range has been the mantra for ages. If anything was going to kill someone that would have - its a dangerous and recently proven wrong policy. Most types 1's intuitively know that and allow their HBa1C to run higher on the scale.

Yes - its a new meter, yes there will be an adjustment, no I don't want a pump (yet) but its not going to bother me one bit and I'm still bloody glad I live in a place where the govt will help pay to keep me alive.

[oneofsix]

Of course Pharmac care, they will have 4 months supply of strips to ensure the old meters don't run out in the 6 months it takes for the swap over, a 2 month gap, oh well.

But it will all be ok because they are going to run an undefined education campaign "involving pharmacists, clinicians and community and consumer groups". Doesn't that make you feel reassured?

[nosebleed]

...If there's 150,000 registered diabetics and there'll be Free insulin pumps for those with diabetes the Pharmac CEO "says the project will cost about $4 million per year, for about 800 patients.". That must be some pump for 5k. Wonder how much the meters will cost?

My brother is on an insulin pump, and yes they're about $5k a pop (paid privately as there is no current funding). Also they are free in Australia (yet another reason to cross the ditch).
Why so expensive? It's quite simply a mechanical pancreas that sits in a pouch on your belt. When you understand how often one must "manually" adjust for the bodies needs during the day for a bodily function that runs automatically for most people you'll appreciate why the price is high.

Of course vials and syringes are cheap, but so are leeches.

I'm a type 1 diabetic and I use my meter 4 or 5 times a day, I really depend on it and frankly I'm not worried in the slightest.

ALL of the current meters reps and the literature understate the accuracy of their current meters as it is, they are all trading accuracy for speed and usability. Don't believe me, try one and test say 5 times in a row - some days all reading will be the same - another day they will vary considerably. More so if you test a sample from different sites.

Spot on accuracy and keeping the blood sugar level as low as possible within the permissible range has been the mantra for ages. If anything was going to kill someone that would have - its a dangerous and recently proven wrong policy. Most types 1's intuitively know that and allow their HBa1C to run higher on the scale.

Yes - its a new meter, yes there will be an adjustment, no I don't want a pump (yet) but its not going to bother me one bit and I'm still bloody glad I live in a place where the govt will help pay to keep me alive.

I'm also type I and I agree. Although I'm not entirely happy about a sole supplier (mainly from a competition poit of view) I don't see the multiple deaths on the horizon.
I also don't want a pump - despite my brothers experiences.

Stem Cells for life!

[Paul in NZ]

Yeah - I understand why people get upset because once you have a routine thats working its quite upsetting to change things. But stuff changes and ya just gotta deal with it...

[mashman]

My brother is on an insulin pump, and yes they're about $5k a pop (paid privately as there is no current funding). Also they are free in Australia (yet another reason to cross the ditch).
Why so expensive? It's quite simply a mechanical pancreas that sits in a pouch on your belt. When you understand how often one must "manually" adjust for the bodies needs during the day for a bodily function that runs automatically for most people you'll appreciate why the price is high.

Of course vials and syringes are cheap, but so are leeches.

Fair enough. Bring on the leeches.

Yeah - I understand why people get upset because once you have a routine thats working its quite upsetting to change things. But stuff changes and ya just gotta deal with it...

I'm not a diabetic and the more people I meet over here the more there seem to be... funny that... anyhoo whilst I understand that we must adapt and move on etc... where's the choice for those who are more than comfortable with their current routine? Why should someone else tell them how they medicate and manage themselves? especially to save $5/year per working person (approx).

I don't mind paying to keep you to stay alive ... else I'd have bludgeoned you to death a long time ago

[Paul in NZ]

I'm not a diabetic and the more people I meet over here the more there seem to be... funny that... anyhoo whilst I understand that we must adapt and move on etc... where's the choice for those who are more than comfortable with their current routine? Why should someone else tell them how they medicate and manage themselves? especially to save $5/year per working person (approx).

I don't mind paying to keep you to stay alive ... else I'd have bludgeoned you to death a long time ago

You will be meeting a lot of type 2's which is more the 'growth' sector of diabetes shall we say. Several factors at play here including an increasing population with an ethnic predisposition towards diabetes (but we are not allowed to say that are we?) and a global trend towards eating processed hi carb food while exercising less.

The thing is - once someone else is funding your medicine they do have a right to manage the situation to reduce costs. In general Pharmac is really good at that. Is its occasionally annoying but would you trust one of the big pharmaceutical companies to look after your interests? No thanks....

[mashman]

You will be meeting a lot of type 2's which is more the 'growth' sector of diabetes shall we say. Several factors at play here including an increasing population with an ethnic predisposition towards diabetes (but we are not allowed to say that are we?) and a global trend towards eating processed hi carb food while exercising less.

The thing is - once someone else is funding your medicine they do have a right to manage the situation to reduce costs. In general Pharmac is really good at that. Is its occasionally annoying but would you trust one of the big pharmaceutical companies to look after your interests? No thanks....

Lacist Pig. It does seem to look that way... although what I can't grasp is how those with a "predisposition" survived given that it can be inherited. I would have thought those genetics would have died out a long time ago?

Hang on. You, me and pretty much everyone else on this forum are funding the treatments. I'd rather make sure that you guys were ok rather than playing a little roulette for the sake of $5/year. True though, I'd trust them about as far as I can throw them, but I still don't trust Pharmac, not really. I understand that it's a "sound" business decision and that we can get access to other medication etc... but I'd rather not run the risk (and it ain't me that is). I can only assume that the bean counters, known for not implementing things that aren't 100%, have their ducks in a row. No, I don't trust them.

[scott411]

Lacist Pig. It does seem to look that way... although what I can't grasp is how those with a "predisposition" survived given that it can be inherited. I would have thought those genetics would have died out a long time ago?

Hang on. You, me and pretty much everyone else on this forum are funding the treatments. I'd rather make sure that you guys were ok rather than playing a little roulette for the sake of $5/year. True though, I'd trust them about as far as I can throw them, but I still don't trust Pharmac, not really. I understand that it's a "sound" business decision and that we can get access to other medication etc... but I'd rather not run the risk (and it ain't me that is). I can only assume that the bean counters, known for not implementing things that aren't 100%, have their ducks in a row. No, I don't trust them.

im with Paul, I trust Pharmac better than i do teh Drug Companies, and it must be good, cause the american goverment are against it because it "hurts" their drug industry, if that is not a ringing endorsment of Pharmac working then what is,

[imdying]

Those of you that managed to get it through lifestyle, any advice you'd like the give the rest of us slobs?

[Paul in NZ]

Those of you that managed to get it through lifestyle, any advice you'd like the give the rest of us slobs?

Type 1 is an auto immune thing - ie not lifestyle, just won the lottery.

Type 2 is simple (ish) to avoid. Keep you weight down, avoid processed foods and in particular foods that your body can process quickly (google GI) and exercise regularly. People with type 2 vary wildly and its not right to think of them all as fat slobs etc. However some have eliminated the need for any medication simply by diet and lifestyle changes.

In short - you probably already know what you need to do so stop kidding yourself when you look in the mirror...

This also applies to cancers (some), heart disease, and a whole raft of things loosely called diseases of affluence... Read 'The China Study' for more info.

[mashman]

im with Paul, I trust Pharmac better than i do teh Drug Companies, and it must be good, cause the american goverment are against it because it "hurts" their drug industry, if that is not a ringing endorsment of Pharmac working then what is,

That is somewhat amusing... but amusing in light of, why are the Americans unhappy about it? coooooooould it be because we're using a different drug industry? or am I being cynical in thinking that drug company's are the same? I'm not necessarily against what Paul is saying at all, but all we're really talking about here is the same buyer using a different supplier and unfortunately the removal of some choice. I ain't overly convinced that it's such a good idea... so the professionals who have stood up and said similar must just be arguing for the sake of arguing or they just don;t handle change very well . If they were made in NZ by NZ people for NZers using top quality components then I may have a little more "faith".