I believe in gay marriage

[_Shrek_]

Didn't wife previously mean a female who stayed at home and did the cooking and cleaning etc, while husband meant a male who went out and worked to financially support the household? So if you're in business with your wife, the she doesn't fit the definition, and neither do you...

you seem a bit

& to us it still means the same but as our kids are 17 plus she wanted to do this business, as it ment we could do it together, not sure why you think we don't fit the definition!!!

& if you were to understand what mrs S thinks, what wife means, this might help

W = withholding

I = income

F = from

E = employment

[Katman]

Meh, all the ranting about the 'definition of the word' is simply a smoke screen for the homophobes to hide behind.

[_Shrek_]

Why does one need to be a husband and one a wife? That's just a lame objection ... it defines any person in terms of heterosexual relationships and genders ... completely unnecessary ..

so now we're moving into the area of neither male or female in any way shape or form,

[bogan]

you seem a bit

& to us it still means the same but as our kids are 17 plus she wanted to do this business, as it ment we could do it together, not sure why you think we don't fit the definition!!!

& if you were to understand what mrs S thinks, what wife means, this might help

W = withholding

I = income

F = from

E = employment

My point was that you're clearly ok with the wifes role being redefined which does affect you, but are not ok with the word marriage being redefined which doesn't affect you.

[_Shrek_]

Meh, all the ranting about the 'definition of the word' is simply a smoke screen for the homophobes to hide behind.

the great KM has spoken now we're all

[Banditbandit]

so now we're moving into the area of neither male or female in any way shape or form,

Oh crap ... you deliberatley misunderstand. That's a very good definition of ignorance .. and I don't argue with ignorant people .. waste of my time.

[_Shrek_]

Why does one need to be a husband and one a wife? That's just a lame objection ... it defines any person in terms of heterosexual relationships and genders ... completely unnecessary ..

so now we're moving into the area of neither male or female in any way shape or form,

now you're telling me I deliberatley misunderstood & call me ignorant when you said the above

how could I not interpret it any other way!!

Q/ for you!!! what happens when the marriage celebrants say I now present to you Mr & Mrs..... ?

[_Shrek_]

My point was that you're clearly ok with the wifes role being redefined which does affect you, but are not ok with the word marriage being redefined which doesn't affect you.

the wife's role hasn't been redefined - a wife is a (female) married to a husband (male)

[Banditbandit]

now you're telling me I deliberatley misunderstood & call me ignorant when you said the above

how could I not interpret it any other way!!

You don't nered to interpret any further - you have clearly demonstrated that you understood exactrly what I was saying ... (apart from the poor spelling of my fingers this morning ...)

Q/ for you!!! what happens when the marriage celebrants say I now present to you Mr & Mrs..... ?

Who says the have to say that ???? That's not part of any legal requirement of any marriage ... It may be custom and practice in SOME circles .. but I have never been to a wedding where that was said by whoever was the celebrant ...

[mashman]

so what you're saying is that we can no longer use a dictionary for any thing when we want to define some thing,

I'm in business with my wife = 50/50 partnership, is not marriage

I'm married to my wife = 100% commitment it's not a partnership

two homosexuals get married who's wife, who's the husband

two lesbians get married who's wife, who's the husband

how do you redefine this?

What is the role of a wife?

What is the role of a husband?

Do wives and husbands share roles? if so, shouldn't that make them a Wusband or a Hife?

[bogan]

the wife's role hasn't been redefined - a wife is a (female) married to a husband (male)

I think you need to be a bit more honest with yourself about the historical roles of each, and how they used to be defined. Being picky and just choosing parts of the definition to focus on while ignoring others is why you are objecting to the currently proposed changes, so it is unbecoming to do the same thing yourself.

[Katman]

Q/ for you!!! what happens when the marriage celebrants say I now present to you Mr & Mrs..... ?

You're argument has hit an all time low.

Seriously man, I'd have more respect for you if you just came out (see what I done there) and admitted you oppose the law change because homosexuality is against your religion.

[Virago]

...If you think same-sex couples are "different", please explain why they are different, rather than hide behind dictionaries and bibles. Because I don't understand?

so what you're saying is that we can no longer use a dictionary for any thing when we want to define some thing...

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. The dictionary does not define us, we define the dictionary.

I've got a tatty old dictionary from the '70s at home, which defines several East European countries as being part of "The Soviet Union". Perhaps we need to inform them that their more recent independence is not permitted by the dictionary?

Things change. The dictionary does too.

....I'm in business with my wife = 50/50 partnership, is not marriage

I'm married to my wife = 100% commitment it's not a partnership...

This makes no sense - can you explain?

I'm in business with my wife too - 50/50 partnership. It has nothing to do with our marriage. Are you suggesting that same-sex relationships are a business agreement?

...two homosexuals get married who's wife, who's the husband

two lesbians get married who's wife, who's the husband

how do you redefine this?

Why do they have to husband and wife? Can they not be spouses?

In the meantime I'm still keen for you to give some real reasons why same-sex relationships are different, rather than giving superficial definitions? I'm genuinely interested.

[awayatc]

just googled marriage definition for you....:

Anthropologists have proposed several competing definitions of marriage so as to encompass the wide variety of marital practices observed across cultures.[4] In his book The History of Human Marriage (1921), Edvard Westermarck defined marriage as "a more or less durable connection between male and female lasting beyond the mere act of propagation till after the birth of the offspring."[5] In The Future of Marriage in Western Civilization (1936), he rejected his earlier definition, instead provisionally defining marriage as "a relation of one or more men to one or more women that is recognized by custom or law".[6]

The anthropological handbook Notes and Queries (1951) defined marriage as "a union between a man and a woman such that children born to the woman are the recognized legitimate offspring of both partners."[7] In recognition of a practice by the Nuer of Sudan allowing women to act as a husband in certain circumstances, Kathleen Gough suggested modifying this to "a woman and one or more other persons."[8]

Edmund Leach criticized Gough's definition for being too restrictive in terms of recognized legitimate offspring and suggested that marriage be viewed in terms of the different types of rights it serves to establish. Leach expanded the definition and proposed that "Marriage is a relationship established between a woman and one or more other persons, which provides that a child born to the woman under circumstances not prohibited by the rules of the relationship, is accorded full birth-status rights common to normal members of his society or social stratum"[9] Leach argued that no one definition of marriage applied to all cultures. He offered a list of ten rights associated with marriage, including sexual monopoly and rights with respect to children, with specific rights differing across cultures.[10]


Does that help.....?

[MD]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. The dictionary does not define us, we define the dictionary.

I've got a tatty old dictionary from the '70s at home, which defines several East European countries as being part of "The Soviet Union". Perhaps we need to inform them that their more recent independence is not permitted by the dictionary?

Things change. The dictionary does too.

.

That's a nonsense of a comparison. You are implying that the writers of a dictionary in the 1970s are at fault for not having some magical crystal ball insight to the future national borders of the world. They reported what was the contemporary accepted known nations at that time.


Noun 1. dictionary definition - a definition that reports the standard uses of a word or phrase or symbol


This Government has no more right to change Eastern European borders than it does to change the contemporary common use of words, any words be that; up, down, oven, fridge or marriage.