I believe in gay marriage

[Quasievil]

I love the people complaining that if you give homosexuals the right to get married it's altering the word 'marriage'... that's hilarious!

Let's not forget in past centuries homosexual marriages of a sort were conducted by churches... "Office of Same Sex Union" (10th and 11th century Greek) or the "Order for Uniting Two Men" (11th and 12th century)." These ceremonies had all the contemporary symbols of a marriage: a community gathered in church, a blessing of the couple before the altar, their right hands joined as at heterosexual marriages, the participation of a priest, the taking of the Eucharist, a wedding banquet afterwards. All of which are shown in contemporary drawings of the same sex union of Byzantine Emperor Basil I (867-886) and his companion John. Such homosexual unions also took place in Ireland in the late 12th/early 13th century, as the chronicler Gerald of Wales (Geraldus Cambrensis) has recorded.

It seems only after the 14th century and the introduction of evangelists and fundamentalist Christians began to spread their views on anti-homosexuality. And of course it still permeates into our society today, much as the Victorian model of 'female modesty' does.

Perhaps read The Marriage of Likeness: Same Sex Unions in Pre-Modern Europe by John Boswell, it may enlighten some people...

Let's not forget also that marriage for a lot longer than our current definition, was of selling a women to become the property and chattels of a man. Yet we royally fucked up that definition for the most part... We've also ruined the word rape, because 'rape' between a husband and wife was nonsensical over many centuries.

To late, we won

Unless you can give a reason as to Why a Mother and Son a Daughter and Father Daughter ,brother and sister cant get married without discriminating them (which you cant) then game over !!

[superman]

To late, we won

Unless you can give a reason as to Why a Mother and Son a Daughter and Father Daughter ,brother and sister cant get married without discriminating them (which you cant) then game over !!

When did I say consenting adults shouldn't be able to get married if they happen to be genetically related?

[HenryDorsetCase]

Fair point...



If you feel that way, let me switch lanes then: How about sodomy? Is sodomy morally repugnant too? I'm sure it is when performed by an adult on a child as part of the act of rape/abuse. But if by two consenting males, it is not?

the key word there is "consenting": if it floats their boat, if its in private, if it isnt forced absolutely it is OK. Does it float MY boat? would I conent to it? probably not, unless it was George Clooney, who I'd totally turn gay for. Sadly, the question is unlikely to arise.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Unless you can give a reason as to Why a Mother and Son a Daughter and Father Daughter ,brother and sister cant get married without discriminating them (which you cant) then game over !!

really?

I would suggest to you that there are sane and sensible reasons, scientifically based on the likelihood of reproduction and birth defects that should preclude close relatives from interbreeding. Is that discriminatory? Maybe it is, but it is reasonable to most people, and scientifically justifiable. However, that reason does not apply when there is no possibility of those birth defects being present: i.e. your same sex couple, thus there is no reason to preclude that couple from a civil recognition of their relationship, IF THAT IS WHAT THEY WANT.

My solution is to ban marriage for everyone. It is pointless, it is likely to end in failure, and the only rational economic basis is stupid bitches that want to be a princess for a day.

Here is a thought experiment. Read your posts but substitute "Maori" for "Gay" or "homo". Now, is your position still reasonable in your eyes? If not, why not?

[Tigadee]

probably not, unless it was George Clooney, who I'd totally turn gay for. Sadly, the question is unlikely to arise.

Pfft! Talk about easy way out! You'd as soon meet GC as I'd hit Lotto jackpot!

And ass if George would turn gay for YOU!

[HenryDorsetCase]

To late, we won

Unless you can give a reason as to Why a Mother and Son a Daughter and Father Daughter ,brother and sister cant get married without discriminating them (which you cant) then game over !!

As you know, there is a Drive By Truckers song for every occasion, and this is apposite, plus being the first song on one of their best records:

[youtube]kvId33nqBG0[/youtube]

its about your favourite topic: incest.

Track is "The Deeper In" from DECORATION DAY

[BoristheBiter]

civil union is not equal to marriage from a legal perspective. trust me on this. its my job to know this shit.

I was going to say there is the CU but then you posted this.
I was under the impression that this was basically the same thing as marriage so TPTB didn't have the change the definition of the word marriage.

Can you please explain what legally is lacking from the CU?

[Tigadee]

Can you please explain what legally is lacking from the CU?

CU = Makes it harder to apply for benefits?

[blairnz]

Sure, why should a couple who choose to be married (a man and a woman) have there rights shared with a man and another man who choose to stick their penises up each others bums ? the sanctity of marriage will be tarnished with this, homos are weird, homos are not natural, why should they enjoy the benefit of Marriage what advantage would they get from it? merely to say that they are being discriminated against is not an argument and wont stop the discrimination as it will always continue, a Male sticking his penis up another mans bum will always be grounds for discrimination as its not natural!!!!!!

Can you please tell me why a Brother should not marry his Sister ??

Two consenting adults should be able to marry, whether they're related or not, whether they're the same sex or not. I'm glad you agree.

[Quasievil]

Here is a thought experiment. Read your posts but substitute "Maori" for "Gay" or "homo". Now, is your position still reasonable in your eyes? If not, why not?

Whats Race got to do with it ?

Im concerned with this country as I think there are many like you who vote with this kind of warped view on matters of morality and social decency.
I bet you where disappointed to see Labours social engineering agendas cease with them losing the election

and just as a foot note, Im having a bit of fun here, Im enjoying the debate........

[HenryDorsetCase]

I was going to say there is the CU but then you posted this.
I was under the impression that this was basically the same thing as marriage so TPTB didn't have the change the definition of the word marriage.

Can you please explain what legally is lacking from the CU?

adoption is the big one: same sex couples cannot adopt under the adoption act. I gather there may be some issues under some fo the social welfare legislation too: things like "Widows benefits", but that is by no means my area of expertise: I was talking to a lawyer about it at a function one night and had been drinking so its a bit blurry. The amendents to the Matrimonial Property Act took care of most of the issues around property, though as always there were unintended consequences. Some of the most intellectually challenging work I do is in scenarios of "his kids, her kids, our kids" or where one partner for whatever reason feels hard done by as a result of the dissolution of a prior relationship. Not sure the CU is exactly lacking, and to be honest if I were personally motivated to do it, that would be my choice rather than marriage.

[superman]

It's also interesting that so many anti-gay people have been found to actually be homosexual. I wonder if they've done a study on such a correlation between anti-gays and their tendency to be homosexual.

Top Ten Anti-Gay Activists Caught Being Gay

That and there's also the psychological effect that some men have against thinking about not being the dominant one in the bedroom. I'm trying to remember what the effect was called...

[HenryDorsetCase]

Whats Race got to do with it ?

Im concerned with this country as I think there are many like you who vote with this kind of warped view on matters of morality and social decency.
I bet you where disappointed to see Labours social engineering agendas cease with them losing the election

and just as a foot note, Im having a bit of fun here, Im enjoying the debate........

thought experiment. It was a test as to whether you your proposal was in fact discriminatory or not. If you say "Those homos can't do that" and say that is not discriminatory, then surely saying "those Maori can't do that" must not be discriminatory either, yes?

How I vote is none of your business, but let me assure you that I hated the last gubblemunt with at least as much fervor as I abhor this one.

[HenryDorsetCase]

It's also interesting that so many anti-gay people have been found to actually be homosexual. I wonder if they've done a study on such a correlation between anti-gays and their tendency to be homosexual.

Top Ten Anti-Gay Activists Caught Being Gay

That and there's also the psychological effect that some men have against thinking about not being the dominant one in the bedroom. I'm trying to remember what the effect was called...

thats fabulous!

[Quasievil]

I actually didnt realise there where so many Gay activists on KB, this is interesting.............this used to be a bikers site, now its a Homo rights site