Are the boys at BSB with their "stock" superbikes onto something?

[Robert Taylor]

Control suspension?....................................... ..

Whats the prob with control tyres Robert? Mass buying would surely make the most expensive consumable cheaper? Seems to be very very common around the globe these days.

The importers supplying race tyres are already selling at so close to their cost price its ridiculous. When we talk mass buying in the NZ context its in international terms not mass buying at all.
Maybe there would be better overall deals to be had but I think every tyre manufacturer should be allowed to compete, as for ( for example ) every brake pad manufacturer. Its not only about competition amongst riders.

[gixerracer]

The importers supplying race tyres are already selling at so close to their cost price its ridiculous. When we talk mass buying in the NZ context its in international terms not mass buying at all.
Maybe there would be better overall deals to be had but I think every tyre manufacturer should be allowed to compete, as for ( for example ) every brake pad manufacturer. Its not only about competition amongst riders.

But you hate competition Robert

[budda]

the importers supplying race tyres are already selling at so close to their cost price its ridiculous. When we talk mass buying in the nz context its in international terms not mass buying at all.
.

bullseye !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Robert Taylor]

But you hate competition Robert

Im all for competition with people with ethics.

[Shaun]

The importers supplying race tyres are already selling at so close to their cost price its ridiculous. When we talk mass buying in the NZ context its in international terms not mass buying at all.
Maybe there would be better overall deals to be had but I think every tyre manufacturer should be allowed to compete, as for ( for example ) every brake pad manufacturer. Its not only about competition amongst riders.

Fair points,BUT, the racers/riders are ones that are paying for the promotion of these brands, No wholesaler is selling next to cost on all there tyres, the race related discount structure is worked out in the promotion budget, which is aimed at selling more of there product to the road riders, so still really a win to the wholesalers

So where is the win win in this relationship, yes, some riders get free tyres, some heavily discounted, but still the racers are promoting them

Realisticly, a one brand takes all series for 1 or 2 years could very well help the sport grow more by leaving the racers/workers with more money to spend to do more racing perhaps, or spend on getting there bikes handling better to save tyre wear more

[Shaun]

Im all for competition with people with ethics.

Dam, so is that why you do not like Duckarse

[codgyoleracer]

Fair points,BUT, the racers/riders are ones that are paying for the promotion of these brands, No wholesaler is selling next to cost on all there tyres, the race related discount structure is worked out in the promotion budget, which is aimed at selling more of there product to the road riders, so still really a win to the wholesalers

So where is the win win in this relationship, yes, some riders get free tyres, some heavily discounted, but still the racers are promoting them

Realisticly, a one brand takes all series for 1 or 2 years could very well help the sport grow more by leaving the racers/workers with more money to spend to do more racing perhaps, or spend on getting there bikes handling better to save tyre wear more

The position to view it from is obviously from the tyre importers perspective:

Whats in it for the winning bidder , compared to the current set up ?

1) Secure and complete control over the branding image for a specific class
2) A decent chunk of cash-flow (albiet no doubt at reduced overall margin), possibly for more than one year
3) The "mana" associated with being "the brand of choice"

These things carry value for a supplier , and are unattainable in an open market, - the "offical distributer" of course is also likely to take the plan to thier respective manufacturer and request a better than normal importer price (hopefully to the benefit of all down the chain)

The main issue i see with it actualy ever happening in NZ - is the abilty for one person to structure a suitable contract of supply and manage that with MNZ approval. The only way i see that happening is for MNZ to contract out the managment of such a system and the sideline benefit of that is that they & thier members would then be exposed financially.

[Shaun]

The position to view it from is obviously from the tyre importers perspective:

Whats in it for the winning bidder , compared to the current set up ?

1) Secure and complete control over the branding image for a specific class
2) A decent chunk of cash-flow (albiet no doubt at reduced overall margin), possibly for more than one year
3) The "mana" associated with being "the brand of choice"

These things carry value for a supplier , and are unattainable in an open market, - the "offical distributer" of course is also likely to take the plan to thier respective manufacturer and request a better than normal importer price (hopefully to the benefit of all down the chain)

The main issue i see with it actualy ever happening in NZ - is the abilty for one person to structure a suitable contract of supply and manage that with MNZ approval. The only way i see that happening is for MNZ to contract out the managment of such a system and the sideline benefit of that is that they & thier members would then be exposed financially.

mmm,it is starting look like the racers need to do some thing that some moron suggested in writing tio them ALL a few years ago about hiring/nominating a riders representative to work for them with all parties involved.

ATTN BILLY

How many registered MNZ Road race license holders are there currently please?

[Robert Taylor]

The position to view it from is obviously from the tyre importers perspective:

Whats in it for the winning bidder , compared to the current set up ?

1) Secure and complete control over the branding image for a specific class
2) A decent chunk of cash-flow (albiet no doubt at reduced overall margin), possibly for more than one year
3) The "mana" associated with being "the brand of choice"

These things carry value for a supplier , and are unattainable in an open market, - the "offical distributer" of course is also likely to take the plan to thier respective manufacturer and request a better than normal importer price (hopefully to the benefit of all down the chain)

The main issue i see with it actualy ever happening in NZ - is the abilty for one person to structure a suitable contract of supply and manage that with MNZ approval. The only way i see that happening is for MNZ to contract out the managment of such a system and the sideline benefit of that is that they & thier members would then be exposed financially.

Does it happen this way in practice? For example many used race tyres get sold off and that affects retail sales. Im not taking any sides as such but the benefits for a tyre supplier (even a monopoly supplier ) are very academic. In terms of cold hard economics.

[codgyoleracer]

Control tyres ????

Control exhausts ????

Control ECUs ????

Etc etc, ad infinitum.

Variety of choice is spice, these classes dont need dumbing down too much. This is not only about the riders, its also about the engineering.

Making the subject bigger than it really is , is another way of casting negativity into a discussion.

I am not aware of their being "an infinate number of control parts" in BSB, but a Biggie is the control tyre rule and that is what we are discussing here. BSB has reduced their bike specification, introduced a control tyre rule. + more recently also gone to control ECU's.

The big budget item is tyres of course, and thus i feel is relativley pertinant to the discussion. I am less concerned about other "consumables" and trying to drag them into the discussion is yet again sidetracking tactics. Who knows, we may even get around to talking about suspension.....

[codgyoleracer]

Does it happen this way in practice? For example many used race tyres get sold off and that affects retail sales. Im not taking any sides as such but the benefits for a tyre supplier (even a monopoly supplier ) are very academic. In terms of cold hard economics.

In answer to your question: My own experience is
50% of my tyres go to the bin / recylcers
25% get used for practice / test days (then go to the bin)
25% get sold onto mates for track work.

[Kevin G]

In Ausie they do have the control tyre deal with Dunlop. Below is in AUD of course so Superbike slicks at AUD$575 a set is around NZ$735 a set...not so cheap. I know that they have tyres as prizes etc but if you are not winning....I think its more expensive but I stand to be corrected as I do not purchase SBK slicks...
125 slick prices in the below are NZ$ 425 a set which is comparable to NZ price for the normal bloke.

No allowance for GST in the calcs as I think the Aus rate is only 10% and I assume the below prices include GST

Figures below taken from ASBK sup regs http://www.asbk.com.au/images/storie...v2_24Jan12.pdf

Superbike – Dunlop
200/55R17 KR449 Slick (35D2 or 5436) except PI $300
195/65R17 KR108 Slick (W745) PI only $375
125/80R17 KR448F Slick (32M3) all circuits $225
120/70R17 KR106 Slick (6813) PI only $275
Prostock – Dunlop
200/55R17 KR449 Slick (35D2 or 5436) except PI $300
200/55R17 KR449 Slick (5436) PI only $300
125/80R17 KR448F Slick (32M3) all circuits $225
Supersport & Superstock – Dunlop
190/55ZR17 D211 GP-A Med/Hard all circuits $270
120/70ZR17 D211 GP-A Med all circuits $200
Superlites – Dunlop
115/70R17 KR133 B,C,D Comps all circuits $180
95/70R17 KR149 B,C.D Comps all circuits $150
250 Production – Dunlop
110/70 17 54H GT501 All machines all circuits $100
150/70 17 69H GT501 Hyosung all circuits $130
140/70 17 66H GT501 Honda & Daelim all circuits $120
130/70 17 62H GT501 Kawasaki & Megelli all circuits $120
110/70 R17 Alpha 12 All machines all circuits $130
140/70 R17 Alpha 12 All machines all circuits $160
The above tyres are all weather tyres for dry and wet conditions.
Wets - all classes except Superlites* & 250 Production
190/55R17 KR393 414 all circuits $330
125/80R17 KR191 414 all circuits $265

[codgyoleracer]

In Ausie they do have the control tyre deal with Dunlop. Below is in AUD of course so Superbike slicks at AUD$575 a set is around NZ$735 a set...not so cheap. I know that they have tyres as prizes etc but if you are not winning....I think its more expensive but I stand to be corrected as I do not purchase SBK slicks...
125 slick prices in the below are NZ$ 425 a set which is comparable to NZ price for the normal bloke.

No allowance for GST in the calcs as I think the Aus rate is only 10% and I assume the below prices include GST

Figures below taken from ASBK sup regs http://www.asbk.com.au/images/storie...v2_24Jan12.pdf

Superbike – Dunlop
200/55R17 KR449 Slick (35D2 or 5436) except PI $300
195/65R17 KR108 Slick (W745) PI only $375
125/80R17 KR448F Slick (32M3) all circuits $225
120/70R17 KR106 Slick (6813) PI only $275
Prostock – Dunlop
200/55R17 KR449 Slick (35D2 or 5436) except PI $300
200/55R17 KR449 Slick (5436) PI only $300
125/80R17 KR448F Slick (32M3) all circuits $225
Supersport & Superstock – Dunlop
190/55ZR17 D211 GP-A Med/Hard all circuits $270
120/70ZR17 D211 GP-A Med all circuits $200
Superlites – Dunlop
115/70R17 KR133 B,C,D Comps all circuits $180
95/70R17 KR149 B,C.D Comps all circuits $150
250 Production – Dunlop
110/70 17 54H GT501 All machines all circuits $100
150/70 17 69H GT501 Hyosung all circuits $130
140/70 17 66H GT501 Honda & Daelim all circuits $120
130/70 17 62H GT501 Kawasaki & Megelli all circuits $120
110/70 R17 Alpha 12 All machines all circuits $130
140/70 R17 Alpha 12 All machines all circuits $160
The above tyres are all weather tyres for dry and wet conditions.
Wets - all classes except Superlites* & 250 Production
190/55R17 KR393 414 all circuits $330
125/80R17 KR191 414 all circuits $265

Great info Kev, - do you know how the ordering and supply chain works for their system.

[Kevin G]

Great info Kev, - do you know how the ordering and supply chain works for their system.

From what I have understood you pay by the round and they have them at the track for you and they will fit them etc which would be nice...
I know when the Hoogies went across they paid for the tyres etc online from here and just got them at the track when thjey arrived.

Prize details are:

51.2 Dunlop Contingency
Round Contingencies
Superbike and Supersport competitors who qualify for
Superpole (top 4 qualifiers in Superbike and Supersport)
will be awarded a set of tyres which can be used for
Superpole.
Prostock A-B: 1st
- one set of Dunlop control tyres
Prostock C-D: 1st
- one set of Dunlop control tyres
250 Production: 1st
– one set of Dunlop control tyre
2nd
– one rear Dunlop control tyre
3rd
– one front Dunlop control tyre

Tyre allowances per round (qualifying, warm up and races)are:
Superbike 3 fronts & 4 rears
Supersport 3 sets
Prostock 3 sets
Superstock 1 set
Superlites 2 sets
250 Production 1 set
Superpole ** 1 set

[Robert Taylor]

Making the subject bigger than it really is , is another way of casting negativity into a discussion.

I am not aware of their being "an infinate number of control parts" in BSB, but a Biggie is the control tyre rule and that is what we are discussing here. BSB has reduced their bike specification, introduced a control tyre rule. + more recently also gone to control ECU's.

The big budget item is tyres of course, and thus i feel is relativley pertinant to the discussion. I am less concerned about other "consumables" and trying to drag them into the discussion is yet again sidetracking tactics. Who knows, we may even get around to talking about suspension.....

Sorry Glenn no intention of negativity, just stark reality. Tyre costs for racing are already heavily discounted. To not put too fine a point on it I dont think there would be tyre distributors beating down the doors for a ''lucrative'' tyre contract deal.