Are the boys at BSB with their "stock" superbikes onto something?

[Mental Trousers]

Last I saw they give out trophies to riders and manufacturers, not tyre companies. The stories you hear of the old days when Michelin etc flew in specials for the favoured few just make me cringe. Stuff like Elias being an also ran in '06, on a privateer Honda, being gifted a set of Pedrosa's "special's" and going on to win an epic race with Rossi make the "sport" a joke, creating much the same 2 tiers as we have now with the prorotypes and CRT. If the best man can't win then I'm not interested.

Edit: I understand what you are saying regards parity and where to draw the line, but the basic interaction with the road is something that should be universal.

On the world stage there was a need to limit the tyres, but here in NZ it's likely to be more expensive. If the Premier series were a Michelin only one I'd skip it and go race something else cos I can't get along with Michelin's no matter how many times I break my collar bone.

[codgyoleracer]

Progress is all good, but at what stage does it become just Time Trials?
Happened in F1 and got so boring spectators stopped turning up/watching........they went backwards in techy gear and it became more popular again.

Sure we want to see the latest n greatest machines/tech but if ppl loose interest due to boring races it can only hurt the sport long term.
At the end of the day its the spectators that keep it all going isn't it?

Answer me this riddle: Whats the most important & the most interesting to the casual observer ?

1) The fastest laptime ?
2) The close racing ?

[codgyoleracer]

On the world stage there was a need to limit the tyres, but here in NZ it's likely to be more expensive. If the Premier series were a Michelin only one I'd skip it and go race something else cos I can't get along with Michelin's no matter how many times I break my collar bone.

1) Unsubstantiated , pissing in the wind comment re cost
2) Michelins make some great tyres

[codgyoleracer]

Id call that incentive. ( Capitalism versus socialism and its dumbing down mentality ) Incentive to qualify and race well, incentive for the technicians to build a good bike and set it up well track to track. And not forgetting incentive for your wife.

So you think if the up-n-coming guy, now that he knows he is on
(A) a similar bike spec,
(B) similar tyre spec and
(C) doesnt have to worry about the fact that the top guys "dont care if they hiff it" cos like him/her they dont have a spare bike to jump onto & finish the race or days racing

You think he now has LESS incentive ??????

[Mental Trousers]

1) Unsubstantiated , pissing in the wind comment re cost

Until someone does it and proves it isn't more expensive for me to go racing then all comments on cost are pissing in the wind

2) Michelins make some great tyres

They certainly do, but they don't suit me.

[Tony.OK]

Answer me this riddle: Whats the most important & the most interesting to the casual observer ?

1) The fastest laptime ?
2) The close racing ?

Eggs Zachery!
Look how popular Moto2 is now, bagged to hell before it started, now its a spectacle to watch due to hard fought battles.

[codgyoleracer]

Until someone does it and proves it isn't more expensive for me to go racing then all comments on cost are pissing in the wind

OK, so lets think about what the advantages might be too a supplier, instead of bagging something cos it doesnt exist (which is pretty hard to do unless you have a timetravel machine)

1) Guaranteed purchase of 100's of tyres to one buyer
2) Bulk drop delivery of said tyres to one or two drop off points
3) Guaranteed payment
4) Secure and naming rights for a specific class within a national series

Hmm, now off the top of my head as an experienced manufacturer, importer and seller of products in New Zealand, i suspect it just miiiiight be doo-able.....

[Mental Trousers]

OK, so lets think about what the advantages might be too a supplier, instead of bagging something cos it doesnt exist (which is pretty hard to do unless you have a timetravel machine)

1) Guaranteed purchase of 100's of tyres to one buyer
2) Bulk drop delivery of said tyres to one or two drop off points
3) Guaranteed payment
4) Secure and naming rights for a specific class within a national series

Hmm, now off the top of my head as an experienced manufacturer, importer and seller of products in New Zealand, i suspect it just miiiiight be doo-able.....

It may seem attractive, however, the Aussies are now moving away from a single tyre rule and their domestic series is a closer match to ours than the British series is (although both are significantly larger than ours).

They appear to be working with 3 different manufacturers to get tyres supplied at a fixed cost. That's a far, far better option than a single tyre rule.

I reckon you'd have a lot more luck convincing MNZ to follow the Aussies than to go with a single tyre rule. Some of the MNZ people have already stated they're not in favour of a single tyre rule at all.

[codgyoleracer]

A post from A Stroud sometime back, GW


Some more ideas on growing the Nationals
Hi Everyone, Since it's my first post on here I hope I can get away with writting a noval.

My thoughts re, not enough bikes on the grid and some ideas that could encourage more participation in Superbikes / 600's?

Exactly what to do could depend on whether we are looking to attract more riders from within NZ or looking to attract more riders from outside NZ?

1). - If just NZ, then my thoughts would be to make it easier, cheaper and provide some more incentive to compete. Provide rules that both riders and distributors are happy with. I.e. Allowing bikes that riders want to ride which can be tuned at a reasonable cost, and if the distributors input is responsible for half the bikes on the grid (as per Superbike class) then they need to see that the rules will allow their bikes to be competitive. But also rules that do not require people to spend a fortune just because others are. (Personally, I believe that the time has finally come where the performance of the top sports bikes produced by the main manufactures has come to a level that would still allow for close racing even if the bikes were in a near standard form.)
From a riders perspective, I don't mind if the bike has 200hp or 180hp, as long as I wasn't at any disadvantage to others. If it costs an extra $30,000 each, for everyone to have 200hp instead of 180, then I'd expect the majority would pick the 180hp option.

2) To make it more attractive for riders from overseas to compete.
- Aline rules with similar classes overseas and invite overseas riders. I.e. NZ Superbike rules could be alined with Aus Superbikes and if there is to be a second racing class within the Superbike class then why not aline rules with Australia 1000cc Superstock ( standard motor, but allows suspension and exhaust system). Then invite Australian riders and even help organise a container to bring their gear over and back. (who wants a sideline job??). It wouldn't hurt to also promote the NZ series abroad and invite riders from American.. UK...Japan...Europe.. Etc. Our series can be at the perfect time of year for Northern hemisphere 'Racers' to gain more experience, ride on new tracks and get extra development time on their bikes, ....plus get a Summer holiday.......( any extra container space may be sellable to trackday fans.) Air tickets to Aus have never been cheaper
Current NZ Superbike rules are very close to Aus Superbike's. The main difference being, we can machine pistons. Why not start off by changing that one rule to be in line with Australia. This would help reduce preparation time and costs for NZ riders while making it an option to race your bike in Aus and for Aussies to race their bikes here. For this season we could allow the older model bikes to run with their already machined pistons but the new bikes / distributor bikes must have standard pistons. I'd expect the new models to still have an advantage anyway and it may inspire more privateers to compete on their bikes that aren't a new model.
.
Having a 1000cc Superstock kind of class (open Production) would lift the grid numbers and provide a cheaper way to race a 1000. Open Production riders could prove themselves by mixing it with as many Superbikes as they could.
This could also be proposed for the 600 class. i.e. Within the current class a more 'Production' class could line up with the Aus 600 Superstock rules i.e. Basically a muffler, rear spring, fork oil and a fairing.
Lap time wise, I'd estimate the Proddy bikes to be less than a second a lap slower, though if the Proddy riders are concerned about being lapped then we could go back to having three shorter races - say 10laps each(or 25km), one Sat arvo and two Sunday. Mark one set of tyres to be used for qualifying and race 1 then on Sunday mark another set of tyres to be used for race 2 and 3. .....??

The privateers cup idea seems ok though personally when I raced in the '06 Australian Superbike Championship I got points for the privateers cup, but really it didn't mean a lot to me. Riders seem to want to race for a National Championship title. If the Stock Production classes were given National Championship status then there would probably be more interest and more competitors enter.

Tyres;
I'd be just as happy using 2 sets of harder compound production tyres for a weekend as I would be using 4 or 5 sets of the softest compound slicks that we can get away with.
It would be great if a 'control tyre' could work here as it does in other championships ? If a NZ tyre distributor could sponsor the series and offer a deal to provide tyres to every rider for, say... $400 a set and then maybe offer a $200 buy back option then that would significantly reduce the cost of being competitive. ( Apparently the full retail for a rear Dunlop Slick can be near on $700!!! And if you want to be competitive you probably need to test 3 different compounds before qualifying even starts, just to see what compound is going to work best for the particular track and race distance!!!!) The treaded proddy tyres are so close to slicks now anyway but they are sellable to road guys when used. Gareth Jones used them as control tyres in the World Superstocks last year and said they worked really well.

In considering other ways to increase M/c racing profile and encourage more sponsor support could we re-look at joining one or two of the car meetings.
Sponsors could invite clients and put on hospitality in an action packed exciting atmosphere with lots of spectators.
V8 Nationals get good crowds and TV is already there. A1GP was open to including bikes in their Australian round so why not try for it here (if it's still happening). Timaru also worked well and Hampton Downs could be another good one to enquire about. Most car race spectators are pleasantly surprised and very impressed with the speed and dynamic racing that bikes can provide. Distributors also see their products displayed to another audience. Companies could be more likely to sponsor the race, (getting naming rights) which could go towards providing some reasonable prize money.
I know Motorsport NZ are pressed for time at there meetings so what about proposing Superbikes and 600's in the same race. (Gareth may be the only one with a problem trying to ride two bikes at once if they both carried national points.)
The lap times are close enough between 1000's and 600's and a grid of 35 bikes would be impressive.
Also, as there are already some motorcycle clubs discussing whether it is worth it for them to hold a National round then in ultilising a car meet this could provide an easier out for them.

Race Calendar;
In the past our last round has often been the only event to take place after the 1st round of the Australian Championship. That can put a spanner in the works for riders on both sides of the Tasman.
Can we communicate with Motorcycling Australia and coordinate it so our last round finished a couple of weeks before their first round starts.
Re meetings;
There seems to be good numbers turning up for winter series and club meetings, so there is the potential for many of these riders to contest the Nationals if it stacks up for them.
I understand that the 3 weeks away down the South Island can be too much $ and time away for some. We could look at making, say, Timaru a double header, where Wednesday or Thursday is official practice, Friday Qualifying, Saturday Rd? and Sunday the next round. Also this weekend could be the South Island round(s) that is Televised as the public have already seen lots of racing from Ruapuna but not from Levels. Teretonga is a great track and it would be a shame to leave it out though how many riders don't do the Nationals due to the expense, time off and distance to travel? Teretonga has the Burt Munroe Meeting for those who really need to race there.
Pukekohe could be left out as we heard that the Auckland Club is finding it hard to make it viable and besides that, really, it's too dangerous for a National round.
The series could finish Mid February with a Televised final round at Hampton Downs. A container could be at Hampton Downs ready to be loaded with bikes / gear to be delivered to Philip Island WSB for Round 1 of the Aussy Champs.

I hope you guys can help sort out any of the really practical ideas so we can put them forward asap.

Cheers,

Andrew Last edited by AndrewStroud; 15th May 2009 at 11:55. Reason: missed out a word

[Kiwi Graham:Me]

Yes Glen it generated a bit of discussion then too http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...post1129213271

[jellywrestler]

OK, so lets think about what the advantages might be too a supplier, instead of bagging something cos it doesnt exist (which is pretty hard to do unless you have a timetravel machine)

1) Guaranteed purchase of 100's of tyres to one buyer
2) Bulk drop delivery of said tyres to one or two drop off points
3) Guaranteed payment
4) Secure and naming rights for a specific class within a national series

Hmm, now off the top of my head as an experienced manufacturer, importer and seller of products in New Zealand, i suspect it just miiiiight be doo-able.....

and what happens when said order gets here and it's wrong, cause maybe the company can't supply the right ones and we're 'too small' to worry about and they dump in any old thing into the container?

[codgyoleracer]

and what happens when said order gets here and it's wrong, cause maybe the company can't supply the right ones and we're 'too small' to worry about and they dump in any old thing into the container?

There a bunch of "and what happens if" moments, - but like anything it will require organization.

This is no doubt one of the reasons i suspect why the elephant stays quietly sitting in the corner.

[jellywrestler]

This is no doubt one of the reasons i suspect why the elephant stays quietly sitting in the corner.

by that do you mean Metzelers?

[codgyoleracer]

by that do you mean Metzelers?

Haha, quite ironic as i use that particular blue elephant :-),

[montsta56]

If the Premier series were a Michelin only one I'd skip it and go race something else cos I can't get along with Michelin's no matter how many times I break my collar bone.

You probably werent going fast enough to keep them warm