Your bank statement for sale

[avgas]

of course it's an ideology and it has been failing since its inception. Some of us see this quite clearly as we have learned from history and the present just how ultimately flawed it is... Ahem, baaaaaaaa.

It takes 2 types of fools to fill this world.
Those who don't know, and do it anyway. Those who do, and do it anyway. While I think I fall under the latter, at-least the former are a quiet lot.

[avgas]

Typical, blame everything on the government...

It so much easier than responsibility for ones actions......or in the case here inaction.

[AD345]

*snip*... ACC being a case in point. Labour cooked the books with ACC for years and it only came out after the end of their reign that actually it was running at a huge deficit and needed massive re-organisation.
*snip*.

Where the fuck did you come up with this steaming pile of bullshit?

ACC had (and still have) billions of dollar in cash reserves and are less than 5 - 10 years (depending on the pace of change, which itself depends on who wins elections) from completing a transformation from a pay-as-you-go model to a fully funded model (which means having enough cash on hand TODAY to cover all existing claims for the next 40 years)

The ACC investment arm was/is the single most spectacularly performing investment operation in NZ

Buddy - I don't know where you get your Kool-Aid from but you really need to change suppliers because that one statement has undermined everything you have ever said since due to its mind-bogglingly large level of sheer misinformed ignorance

http://www.acc.co.nz/about-acc/overv...PRD_CTRB110932

[Ocean1]

I'm NOT talking about corporate fat cats, I'm talking about the SME's that account for 50%+ of NZ's economic base.

There are around 3500 small to medium (SME) NZ companies with annual revenues of $10-150 million and around 2500 companies in the $10-50 million revenue range;

SMEs are attributed with around 1/3 of NZ’s GDP;

SMEs have an estimated enterprise (debt + equity) valuation in the order of $50-100 billion which is sizeable when compared to the NZ listed market capitalisation of around $53 billion;

SMEs employ over 30% of the New Zealand workforce;

Some 80% of NZ’s top 200 companies (by enterprise valuation) are unlisted.

What that doesn't tell you is the percentage of revenue that stays in the country. As long as our major trading corperations are owned off shore SMEs will remain by far the most important revenue sector.

[mashman]

Of course there is a world of grey area in between both idelogies, not questioning that at all. I also don't question for one second that things are not currently optimally run. I still however do NOT think that giving government more control is a good idea. In fact, this is in support of your ideal for greater freedom of choice. Power to the people I say. This does not occur by greater regulation and/or govt control.

Fair points... but who else is going to take responsibility? The corporation? I understand what you mean in regards to govt and regulation etc... but I'd rather have big brother being a nice big brother instead of one that's only concerned with how much I can earn. Once upon a time govts provided that support and I believe they can do again. The whole game needs to change eh? There is an optimal way of doing things, but we're not doing it because we're too concerned with growth. As an ideology, focussing on growth has not worked so far and never will... and selling private information so that better decisions can be made as to who's best to lend money to is a part of that growth ideology and is therefore doomed to fail. I can't stand that people believe that the recession was caused by a housing bubble and I positively at the thought of people believing that if they have my personal information, these sorts of bubbles will be preventable. Targeting credit/debt worthy people is fraught with just as much danger as throwing money around willy nilly on almost credit/debt worthy people. Still ultimately doomed to failure, but I guess that's what confidence is all about. No worries, we'll have all of the information we need to make informed decisions as to how much money to inject into the financial system, what rate to charge it at given the state of the world economy and we can use the law to "regulate" spending etc... Tis all bollocks because govts have lost their teeth. Govts are the new unions.

[mashman]

But on one hand you're preaching freedom of choice, and then when those of lower social economic and/or financial literacy make poor choices you change tunes?

I am no more a fan of politicians which ever colour flag they choose to fly than any of you guys are. However I also refuse for them to have the blame for every undesirable occurence lobbed at them. They make some pretty shit decisions as well as some decent ones, but ultimately people are also greatly let down by their own poor decision making. The issues in the financial markets that spooled up from about 2006 and caused all of that shit in 2008 are a product of greedy financial institutions, but also of people making poor choices (ie ...I'll get a 110% loan for a house even though I only earn peanuts and use the extra 10% to buy a new car because everyone knows property prices always rise over the long term...Yeah right. Yes this was spurned by a loosening of lending regulations, primarily amongst US lenders...and this caused unwise people to make foolish choices, but it also provided more competition in the market place and thus some cheaper financial products for consumers in general.
I argue that instead of legislating and more government control, we need greater consumer education.

Flitting between what can be and what is maybe. I'm more than happy for those lower social economic standing to spend the money they receive on what they want.

That fuck up 5 years ago was down to 1 thing. The plug was pulled on the money supply and there wasn't enough to go around. It's a simple as that. Go ahead and tinfoil hat it all you like, but that is what happened. The fed shut down for 4 days. We make choices based on what we have or can potentially earn, that's how the system works. No one can look into the future and envisage that they are going to lose their job. At the time the choices may have been sound and factors out with their control have changed that. So I wouldn't say people made bad choices necessarily.
Consumer education is a myth. It won't make a blind bit of difference when you lose your income stream.

[mashman]

It takes 2 types of fools to fill this world.
Those who don't know, and do it anyway. Those who do, and do it anyway. While I think I fall under the latter, at-least the former are a quiet lot.

might I add a 3rd... those who do know and don't do anything. I'll add my self to that group iffen no one minds :

[Brett]

Where the fuck did you come up with this steaming pile of bullshit?

ACC had (and still have) billions of dollar in cash reserves and are less than 5 - 10 years (depending on the pace of change, which itself depends on who wins elections) from completing a transformation from a pay-as-you-go model to a fully funded model (which means having enough cash on hand TODAY to cover all existing claims for the next 40 years)

The ACC investment arm was/is the single most spectacularly performing investment operation in NZ

Buddy - I don't know where you get your Kool-Aid from but you really need to change suppliers because that one statement has undermined everything you have ever said since due to its mind-bogglingly large level of sheer misinformed ignorance

http://www.acc.co.nz/about-acc/overv...PRD_CTRB110932

I will take what you have said and do some greater research.

[avgas]

The ACC investment arm was/is the single most spectacularly performing investment operation in NZ

Come again?
http://www.nzsuperfund.co.nz/index.a...eID=2145855927

[Akzle]

With pleasure...but when all of the entrepreneurial people keen to start forward thinking businesses have gone (along with a major underpinning of the future tax base), we'll see where this leaves you. FYI - I'm NOT talking about corporate fat cats, I'm talking about the SME's that account for 50%+ of NZ's economic base.

ahahahaha.
yes. i imagine the only people left will be those tat can actually feed themselves. but anyway. hurryhurry.

The fed shut down for 4 days.

yeah. on this. you got any info on the reserve's contract that is supposed to stop printing american currency on december 12, 2012? (12/12/12) it's like duece-devilry. and one of at least half a dozen valid theories ebhind "the appocalypse"

Come again?
http://www.nzsuperfund.co.nz/index.a...eID=2145855927

yeah i was wondering. heiling ACC then quoting ACC as a source. that's like asking me how awesome i am today.

(i'm highly fucking awesome, thanks for asking)

[mashman]

[COLOR="#139922"]yeah. on this. you got any info on the reserve's contract that is supposed to stop printing american currency on december 12, 2012? (12/12/12) it's like duece-devilry. and one of at least half a dozen valid theories ebhind "the appocalypse"

The Federal Reserve Charter expires at the end of March next year... but probably before Ron Paul and Sons' audit the fed Bill comes to life... funny that, but I'll leave the tin foil hat there. The best thing about the money being lent is that the fractional reserve system blows everything out of all proportion. If the fed stops lending $1 million to any given country per day then it does $10 million worth of damage in the real world. Wonder how much they do lend per day... I guess we'll find out if the Audit the fed Bill goes through. 4 days worth of no new money. Enough to expose a dodgy property bubble? T'would seem that that was the case... the rest falls like dominoes. No doubt there were other influences, but the absolutely clincher is halting the production of new money. Who controls the productions of money ... aye, tis our own fault that recession occurs.