Employment issues question.

**tigertim20** · 16th August 2012, 21:14

Hey all, have a question which will no doubt turn into a shitfight, but here goes.

Lets say that person A has been at their job far ages (a year, ten years, doesnt matter) they are employed full time. Part of their work uniform is a short sleeved T shirt which they are required to wear at all times.

Person A has developed a taste for tattoos, and decides to get a sleevve. (for the uninitiated, a 'sleeve' is a tattoo that goes from the shoulder, and extends down the arm) It is their intention to have the sleeve go down to just below the elbow, NOT to the wrist, bit just past the elbow, by say and inch or so.
The tattoo they want, for arguments sake, is of a floral design, colorful flowers, we arent talking human skulls, swastikas and death shit, just a nice array of flowers and maybe the odd bird hiding here and there etc.

Lets say person A goes ahead with their tattoo, and heads into work the next day. what issues, if any, would you expect to encounter?
for the sake of argument, there is nothing whatsoever in person A's contract that says anything about tattoos, the only snippets of any relevance state that the person must be in clean uniform, and we cleanly and tidily presented at all times.

No, this has not happened yet, but a person I know may well be about to go ahead with exactly this scenario.
thoughts, opinions, whatever?

**mashman** · 16th August 2012, 21:29

Does the odd bird hiding in the flowers have her tits out?

**Indiana_Jones** · 16th August 2012, 21:29

A longer sleeved shirt?

-Indy

**Hopeful Bastard** · 16th August 2012, 21:29

Maori boy at my work has a full arm sleeve (tribal) and has to wear a cover thing over it. However, If it is just below the Tshirt he would have to get it done and then ask. Chances are he will have to cover it up if it is viewable.

**FJRider** · 16th August 2012, 21:29

Originally Posted by tigertim20

No, this has not happened yet, but a person I know may well be about to go ahead with exactly this scenario.
thoughts, opinions, whatever?

And if the employer decides to "re-structure" the work-force ... giving said employee 3 months notice of termination of employment. Said employee has little they can do.
Or said employer requires all employees to re-apply for their job. And advertises their job as vacant.

Tell that person to discuss the said (possible) scenario with the employer.

**Madness** · 16th August 2012, 21:30

http://www.hrdevelopment.co.nz/2011/...-coverup-case/
http://www.stuff.co.nz/oddstuff/4273...d-on-mans-back

**Daffyd** · 16th August 2012, 21:35

"cleanly and tidily presented at all times." A tattoo, no matter how tasteful, might be considered not clean and tidy. A matter of interpretation.

I would check with said employer first. Which is more important to friend, job or tattoo?

**tigertim20** · 16th August 2012, 21:50

Originally Posted by Hopeful Bastard

Maori boy at my work has a full arm sleeve (tribal) and has to wear a cover thing over it. However, If it is just below the Tshirt he would have to get it done and then ask. Chances are he will have to cover it up if it is viewable.

yes, covering it up isnt something the person has an issue with at all, they arent going to walk around flaunting their tats, but I know that the tattoo thing can become an issue for some

Originally Posted by Daffyd

"cleanly and tidily presented at all times." A tattoo, no matter how tasteful, might be considered not clean and tidy. A matter of interpretation.

I would check with said employer first. Which is more important to friend, job or tattoo?

given the person, the job, and the significance of the tattoo intended, the job means two fifths of fuckall, but just because the job doesnt really mean shit to this person doesnt mean that they want to go and fuck people off, or cause shit if there is a way around it, jobs seldom last a lifetime, unlike tattoos, so frankly IMO, the tattoo would always come first, as if you want it on your forever, it clearly is important to you - that is just my opinion though.

and yes you are right about the interpretation part - hence why I outlined the type of tattoo intended. My brother has some heinous, arse ugly fucking tattoos he got in jail from a mate that made a tattoo gun out of an electric toothbrush and a ball point pen, they are so fucking shit that I want to take a knife to him to cut them off. If I owned a restuarant or something and he worked there, Id tell him to cover them or fuck off because they look like total fucking shit, the person in question though, I wouldnt have a problem with them being visible at all

Originally Posted by Madness

http://www.hrdevelopment.co.nz/2011/...-coverup-case/
http://www.stuff.co.nz/oddstuff/4273...d-on-mans-back

lmao! that fuckin hilarious!

**Ender EnZed** · 16th August 2012, 22:13

If they want the tattoo then just get it. Asking their employer first is only giving them a chance to say no.

Depending on what the job is they might get asked to cover it up, but I'd be surprised if the consequences would be any worse than that.

**Berries** · 16th August 2012, 22:33

I'd sack them. Sorry. In real life you can't, I know, but that is how I would feel. You wear a short sleeve t-shirt for work, if you served customers I would want you gone. It does not matter how pretty the tattoo is, or how much skill it took the artist to do, tattoos are still and will always be a fuck you to the observer. If a customer orientated job they would be first out of the door when I 'restructured'.

Originally Posted by tigertim20

the only snippets of any relevance state that the person must be in clean uniform, and we cleanly and tidily presented at all times.

Clean and tidily presented? I think not.

I have ink by the way. But knowing the prejudice that will always surround them I made bloody sure I didn't get it on my face, neck or below t-shirt level. Or apply for a job at Burger King.

**Oakie** · 16th August 2012, 22:43

Depends on the employment agreement first and foremost and how specific it is about appearance.
After that it depends on the job. In a hotel it would be OK for the kitchen hand hidden away from public view but not OK for the receptionist at front-of-house.

The sensible thing to do if your friend doesn't want to risk an employment problem is to talk to the employer first. At least your friend will know the consequence before proceding.

**tigertim20** · 16th August 2012, 23:00

Originally Posted by Berries

I'd sack them. Sorry. In real life you can't, I know, but that is how I would feel. You wear a short sleeve t-shirt for work, if you served customers I would want you gone. It does not matter how pretty the tattoo is, or how much skill it took the artist to do, tattoos are still and will always be a fuck you to the observer. If a customer orientated job they would be first out of the door when I 'restructured'.

Clean and tidily presented? I think not.

I have ink by the way. But knowing the prejudice that will always surround them I made bloody sure I didn't get it on my face, neck or below t-shirt level. Or apply for a job at Burger King.

would want to, and what is legally allowed are two different things.

there are many ways of covering without breaching the uniform. a clean white sleeve thingy,( the same as a compression sock people wear sometimes) worn with the uniform to cover the ink would be unobtrusive enough to never be an issue.

It irks me somewhat that people still have such a lowly opinion of tattoos, I really cant agree with the 'its still a fuck you to the observer' attitude either - if they were swastikas or something sure, but otherwise nah, that seems a little bit of an overexcited response! whats the difference between a tattoo and jewellery? gonna make a married person take their wedding rings off when they are working in case a customer is a serial womaniser and gets offended!?!?!?

**Berries** · 16th August 2012, 23:32

Originally Posted by tigertim20

It irks me somewhat that people still have such a lowly opinion of tattoos, I really cant agree with the 'its still a fuck you to the observer' attitude either - if they were swastikas or something sure, but otherwise nah, that seems a little bit of an overexcited response! whats the difference between a tattoo and jewellery? gonna make a married person take their wedding rings off when they are working in case a customer is a serial womaniser and gets offended!?!?!?

No, but if they were serving the public I would think twice about employing someone with facial piercings if you want to talk jewellery. Not because it is a problem for me, been there, done that and got the holes to prove it, but because of the impression that some people will get. Wrongly IMO, but that counts for nothing when it is your money walking out the door.

Like I said, I have tattoos. I was just pointing out a not uncommon view, perhaps of my old man's generation, that links big tats to bad people. If I had a job that required me to wear short sleeves then there is no way I would get inked below that point unless I wanted to give the boss a message that I didn't really give a shit about his job.