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Thread: Kiwirider: Gareth Morgan's ACC position

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    Plenty.

    You don't have to look too hard.
    Enough to cover the 30% overall increase? I very much doubt it. And of course, if a claim means your premium goes up a few k, its probably the time you stop riding and/or paying.
    "A shark on whiskey is mighty risky, but a shark on beer is a beer engineer" - Tad Ghostal

  2. #17
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    The man is a total arse wipe and unfortunately his tardme millions have got him a buy in to the old boys club. Think he should take his 'econmics' and stick them where the sun don't shine.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bald Eagle View Post
    The man is a total arse wipe and unfortunately his tardme millions have got him a buy in to the old boys club.
    I'm just hoping he'll sign me in as a guest.
    Quote Originally Posted by husaberk View Post
    Oh I must really irk you to be repeatedly proven to be a total utter moron in public.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I'm just hoping he'll sign me in as a guest.
    They always need a boy to bugga... you'll probably be in with a shout.
    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashman View Post
    They always need a boy to bugga... you'll probably be in with a shout.
    Why should I have to shout?

    They're the ones with the coin.
    Quote Originally Posted by husaberk View Post
    Oh I must really irk you to be repeatedly proven to be a total utter moron in public.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    Why should I have to shout?

    They're the ones with the coin.
    prostitution eh... respec. You fit in well.

    What these guys are proposing, meeting at our expense, is to levy those who can't afford it off the road and make ACC stretch itself to the point where it can't afford to look after us (they're already turning people away with existing and recurring injuries )... they'll call it choice and we'll all, well some of you, will lap it up because it suite your agenda being the serial non-crasher that you are. I guess you may as well reap the benefits, coz you deserve it, until the costs push you off the road too... but fairs fair, you'll have your choice... why should you care what the probable fallout will be.
    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashman View Post
    prostitution eh... respec. You fit in well.
    We all have habits to feed.
    Quote Originally Posted by husaberk View Post
    Oh I must really irk you to be repeatedly proven to be a total utter moron in public.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashman View Post
    Unless of course we do something smart, like taking the entire ACC bill for the year (all accounts) and levying directly off of wages (which would cover all dangerous activities, including getting out of the wrong side of bed)... but we're too fuckin stupid to think about something like that, irrespective of the FACT that we use our "salary" to pay for ALL of our ACC levies (apart from fuel I guess).
    The problem with this is that 1) Would it be a fixed charge for all workers - therefore possibly turning people away from working if they have to pay 5k regardless of what job they are in, or a percentage of earnings amount, which is what happens at the moment, which then means that if people earn more, they pay more (which I'm not entirely against) but then on the flip side, people who don't work (quite a large percentage of the NZ greater population) wouldn't pay any levy - that would include ?a majority of people over 65, people under the age of 14, and a lot of rich people/rich people's family, all of who can and one may argue are more likely to hurt themselves and therefore require ACC.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    Plenty.

    You don't have to look too hard.
    Pity that all my acc claims, i have a 12 book series, have either been work related or non earner account.

    This is what makes his ideas a complete fail.

  10. #25
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    Are we al talking about ansurance policy that the worst riders wont even pay for.
    Those who are prepaired to ride a bike with no rego wont think twice about riding without cover.
    Guess they will just die on the side of the road if not insured though.

    Going to cost me alot. Ill have to get a policy for my wife aswell seeing as she likes to come for a ride also.

    Is it just me or will the cost of living keep going up faster than income untill we will all be sold as slave labour to a third world sweat shop.
    I have evolved as a KB member.Now nothing I say should be taken seriously.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icemaestro View Post
    The problem with this is that 1) Would it be a fixed charge for all workers - therefore possibly turning people away from working if they have to pay 5k regardless of what job they are in, or a percentage of earnings amount, which is what happens at the moment, which then means that if people earn more, they pay more (which I'm not entirely against) but then on the flip side, people who don't work (quite a large percentage of the NZ greater population) wouldn't pay any levy - that would include ?a majority of people over 65, people under the age of 14, and a lot of rich people/rich people's family, all of who can and one may argue are more likely to hurt themselves and therefore require ACC.
    Very true. You're right, it would have to be a percentage of wages thing and yes there would be those who would end up not paying (the same who don't already?). I wouldn't mind paying more either, after all I have a single bike to rego each year, but it would allow those who have multiple motorcycles to be levied once as they seem to want. It would be interesting to find out how many people don't pay their rego that could and work. After all, you wouldn't be able to dodge your rego if it was straight off your wages. It would also be interesting to find out how many people who are unemployed do pay their rego... and to that end find out how close those 2 figures would be to cancelling each other out. If the total bill is $10 billion per year and there are 2 million of us working, then your figure of 5k would seem to be about right. I probably pay about a half of that, maybe a bit more, for my bike, car and earners levy etc... On the face of it it's a shitload more than I currently spend, but it would cover everyone for any sport etc...

    I'd be interested to find out how much of that 5k would be offset by the employers levy, the fuel levy, any other levy that's out there and taking into account the usual surplus that's invested to cover, er, er, er, whatever that surplus goes into covering? I'd love to know what my end bill would be before signing up for a scheme proposed by a bunch of economists and political brown noses that could turn out to have quite serious downsides for plenty of people... which could, by default, lead to prices going up as more and more people leave ACC for private insurers or just stop paying for rego because it costs too much.

    I wonder if that analysis has been undertaken?
    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by mossy1200 View Post
    Is it just me or will the cost of living keep going up faster than income untill we will all be sold as slave labour to a third world sweat shop.
    aye, it's just you... grab yer tin foil hat quickly. It's been happening for decades. The top earners get fuckloads of cash and then cumulative income/wealth is divided by the working population to make is seem like all of our salaries are rising (the report says so, so it must be true). That means we can afford to pay more ACC and should damn well be able to afford private insurance. You should be ashamed of yourself for thinking such stupid thoughts
    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldrider View Post
    The original Woodhouse concept worked until it got choked up with debt and subsequent political interference and tinkering!
    Sorry have I missed something here?? When was it choked up with debt, We were told it was broke but that was just more lies. It has more money than you can poke a stick at!


    Quote Originally Posted by Katman
    If you only view one side, your view can hardly be called balanced.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murray View Post
    Sorry have I missed something here?? When was it choked up with debt, We were told it was broke but that was just more lies. It has more money than you can poke a stick at!
    Almost every change of government since the inception of ACC began their tenure of office claiming ACC was broke or struggling due to abusive claims etc!

    That has been the main cause for the tinkering and interference but as you say, it always gets exposed to having money invested every which way!

    ACC in it's original concept would be OK if it was free of political interference every three years IMHO.
    "The very essence of the banking industry; to make us all, (whether we be nations or individuals), slaves to debt!" ... is it working for them yet?

    Debt explained: http://www.positivemoney.org/issues/debt/

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by caspernz View Post
    The overall message is personal responsibility isn't it?
    Given that ACC in its current form is in essence too expensive, some form of user pays seems fair to me. You choose a risky hobby or sport, or mode of transport in our case as motorcyclists, only seems fair to pay ACC in some proportion to the risk.
    What I find unfair is that if I have a commuter bike for weekdays, a tourer for trips and a dirt bike for hooning around on the weekends, then why should I pay 3 lots of ACC fees when I can only ride one at a time? So levying the rider instead of the bike gets the thumbs up from me. Hard to administer and/or police though, just like rego...

    None of this matters, for the cynic in me reckons the outcome has already been decided, what's going on at present is just the window dressing to get us to the unveiling of the master plan
    To counter your first statement, of varying risk, Woodhouse concluded that you can not weight up just one side of the ledger, what the cost of an activity is that someone undertakes without also considering the other side of the ledger, what that person brings/pays to the community as a whole. His final conclusion after investigating it was that the cost of a scheme that considered the net contribution of an individual was so great (administration cost) that it was cheaper to go to a no-fault scheme.

    Woodhouse had always recognized it would be very easy to create a scheme that was too expensive to run. He solution was always that the level of cover provided must be able to be paid for by the funds coming in. If it becomes more expensive, you reduce the level of cover to what the people can afford. Woodhouse said cuts should begin with less essential treatments, to preserve essential cover for those really in need.
    Accidents: The result of a failure to plan.

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