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Thread: Kiwirider: Gareth Morgan's ACC position

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoristheBiter View Post
    I've never felt guilty about how much I have cost the ACC as I have always worked and always paid rego.
    Pus most of the surgery I have had has been with private insurance.
    I have never been unemployed in my life either, so have paid plenty of tax.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crasherfromwayback View Post
    I have never been unemployed in my life either, so have paid plenty of tax.
    That's the thing, this is how it was designed.
    Yes some pay more than others and some use it more than others, but it still works out in the end.
    The problem is when too much is lumped onto one group.

    That been said when a biker does go down there will usually be a massive bill associated with it.

    I'm more than happy to pay my way but it seems that there are some that aren't.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleemanj View Post
    Personally, I am his polar opposite, I would like to see ACC funded completely as a part of income tax just like the rest of our national expenditure is funded, add a couple of percent to income tax rates and that would probably cover it pretty well.
    Exactly, this is the only fair way to apportion the cost. Afterall, a healthy, contributing, member of society is of benifit to us all.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin (1706-90)

    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending to much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)

    "Motorcycling is not inherently dangerous. It is, however, EXTREMELY unforgiving of inattention, ignorance, incompetence and stupidity!" - Anonymous

    "Live to Ride, Ride to Live"

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSTRS View Post
    And scooters have never been classed as motorbikes - so they don't count.
    They certainly count in the accident statistics.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin (1706-90)

    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending to much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)

    "Motorcycling is not inherently dangerous. It is, however, EXTREMELY unforgiving of inattention, ignorance, incompetence and stupidity!" - Anonymous

    "Live to Ride, Ride to Live"

  5. #65
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    I'll play Devils Advocate.... why should everyone contribute to people who come off their expensive overpowered play things. I had a ride on a 100 HP bike in the weekend and if I was the Govt I'd be taxing them way high.

    Whats so special about the 1967 Wood house report that makes it relevant in 2012? Gone are the days of youth riding to work on small bikes and ACC covering their wages when off work due to injury.... Seems odd to me how everyone is for making same sex marriages legal yet ACC is not to be changed....oh and lets do away with Christmas too, as hardly any one goes to church now....and Easter... .....oh no can't do that is it involves money......
    I lived in the UK for several years and had no problem with private cover, but here everyone expects things for free off the Govt. Think how much tax you pay.....it doesn't really go very far.
    DeMyer's Laws - an argument that consists primarily of rambling quotes isn't worth bothering with.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voltaire View Post
    I'll play Devils Advocate.... why should everyone contribute to people who come off their expensive overpowered play things.
    Simple, because EVERYONE benifts.

    What kind of world would you rather livbe in, one where everybody, regardless of financial circumstance has the opportunity for a fulfilling life or one where this is only open to the rich?

    The whole point of ACC is based around the concept of a public good. This is where, although it may not be immediately apparent, the whole of society benifits, so the whole of society should pay.

    Greed is the overriding motovator today. I would far rather live in a gregarious society where we all look after each other to the benifit of all.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin (1706-90)

    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending to much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)

    "Motorcycling is not inherently dangerous. It is, however, EXTREMELY unforgiving of inattention, ignorance, incompetence and stupidity!" - Anonymous

    "Live to Ride, Ride to Live"

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voltaire View Post
    I'll play Devils Advocate.... why should everyone contribute to people who come off their expensive overpowered play things. I had a ride on a 100 HP bike in the weekend and if I was the Govt I'd be taxing them way high.

    Whats so special about the 1967 Wood house report that makes it relevant in 2012? Gone are the days of youth riding to work on small bikes and ACC covering their wages when off work due to injury.... Seems odd to me how everyone is for making same sex marriages legal yet ACC is not to be changed....oh and lets do away with Christmas too, as hardly any one goes to church now....and Easter... .....oh no can't do that is it involves money......
    I lived in the UK for several years and had no problem with private cover, but here everyone expects things for free off the Govt. Think how much tax you pay.....it doesn't really go very far.
    Have you actually read the Woodhouse report?

    Yes private individual accident insurance would be better and probably cheaper than than the current ACC bullshit which is neither one nor the other!

    You pay through the nose now and don't have the right to suit to get your money back from those that cause you injury or damage!

    It's a shambles now and gets used as a political football every three years.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldrider View Post
    Have you actually read the Woodhouse report?
    NO, I don't have the attention span or memory retention to read long reports.....does Woodhouse have a Wiki I can read in a few minutes?
    But it was written in the 60's thats a long long long time ago....
    DeMyer's Laws - an argument that consists primarily of rambling quotes isn't worth bothering with.

  9. #69
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    Try these for starters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Voltaire View Post
    NO, I don't have the attention span or memory retention to read long reports.....does Woodhouse have a Wiki I can read in a few minutes?
    But it was written in the 60's thats a long long long time ago....
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owen_Woodhouse

    http://www.acc.co.nz/about-acc/overv...o-acc/ABA00004

    Just Google if you need more information there is stacks of it there.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voltaire View Post
    I'll play Devils Advocate.... why should everyone contribute to people who come off their expensive overpowered play things. I had a ride on a 100 HP bike in the weekend and if I was the Govt I'd be taxing them way high.
    Because prior to the Woodhouse reform, when this was the case, you *were* paying more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Voltaire View Post
    Whats so special about the 1967 Wood house report that makes it relevant in 2012?
    Touche. What makes you feel the Woodhouse report is no longer relevant? Perhaps we should have another royal commission of inquiry, now that 40 years has passed, to look at the whole issue again. But I a suspect a return to the system of private insurance, like in the United States, would be a huge step backwards - unless you somehow think theie system of sue and be sued is better. I don't think that the guy with the most expensive lawyer who wins results in a fair system.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voltaire View Post
    I lived in the UK for several years and had no problem with private cover, but here everyone expects things for free off the Govt. Think how much tax you pay.....it doesn't really go very far.
    Did you ever work out how much of your salary was your NHS contribution/levy?
    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

  12. #72
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    The problem I have is this loading of risky ventures business. If it really should be what Woodhouse reckoned, then why isn't every man woman and child effectively costed at exactly the same amount?

    This is why I'd prefer insurance on me personally because I know, based on my track record, I'm a low risk.

    I only started thinking this when they bumped my fees up when I'd done nothing wrong to cause that. Why are there different employment categories, higher fees on motorcycles etc if it was meant to be the caring society looking after all? They have already screwed it so badly it is so far off the original concept. If that isn't fixed I'll continue to argue for the personal insurance option.
    Cheers

    Merv

  13. #73
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    When you get something for free ... it just means that someone else is paying for it!

    Socialists think that it is the rich bastards that pay and that they deserve to pay because they can afford it!

    Hardly a balanced attitude but it is the most predominant one in this country at least until "they" are included on the rich list by public institutions like ACC!

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by merv View Post
    The problem I have is this loading of risky ventures business. If it really should be what Woodhouse reckoned, then why isn't every man woman and child effectively costed at exactly the same amount?
    Ahh, politicians.

    Woodhouse did propose that every man and woman be costed at the same amount. However just before passing the bill into law - the politicians changed it to introduce that risk scale.

    FYI, the riskiest occupation at the time was a top dressing pilot. Woodhouse used it as an example. This occupation was very expensive when they crashed - but they bought a huge value (to then then mostly) rural economy. Woodhouse said you can't consider only the cost to the community that a person represents without also considering the financial gain they bring. You have to consider both sides of the equation.


    Quote Originally Posted by merv View Post
    This is why I'd prefer insurance on me personally because I know, based on my track record, I'm a low risk.
    Lets say we went down that track, and all those with risky - but important - occupations were taxed by ACC for all they could pay. Why would they stay? They wouldn't. They'd bugger off. Eventually we'd be left with a pool of people not prepared to risk doing anything because of the cost.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by p.dath View Post

    Lets say we went down that track, and all those with risky - but important - occupations were taxed by ACC for all they could pay. Why would they stay? They wouldn't. They'd bugger off. Eventually we'd be left with a pool of people not prepared to risk doing anything because of the cost.
    If they were important jobs the cost would be passed onto the end user.

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