Pro-lite questions

[TygerTung]

I have a GPX250 here which a previous owner had savaged, I think perhaps he was wanting to turn it into a streetfighter or something?

I noticed that he has cut off some of the brackets on the rear subframe, Will this make the bike illegal for this class? Will I have to try and replicate these?

The muffler/footrest mounting hanger has been removed and the brackets have been cut off, would it be legal for me to make a new hanger out of steel, rather than having to try and cast a new aluminium one?

Is it legal to remove the wires from the loom which arn't in use anymore?, IE. the wiring for the lights and gauges etc which are no longer fitted, or do I just have to sort of tape these spare wires, plugs etc to the frame to stop them flapping around. I would prefer to remove them as it would be much tidier.

I don't have the original plastic mounting plates which the ignition unit, fusebox and regulator/rectifier are mounted to, can I just make one out of aluminium?

It didn't come with any fairings, is it legal to run in this class without them? I was just going to run the bike fully naked if aloud.

Can the radiator fan and wiring be removed?

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Sam

[Wheeliemonsta]

Gidday Sam,
Its a production based class so the bike has to be as close to the way it left the factory as it possibly can...

Check out http://www.motorcyclingnz.co.nz/down..._I_Prolite.pdf

There will have been literally hundreds of GPX's wrecked by now so bits won't be an issue...

You can run slip on's but the cheaper alternative is to have your stock mufflers re cored with 28mm perf tubing to help them breathe a bit better, have a look here http://www.wix.com/pickleracing/pickle-racing-nz my good mate Blair raced one for a while

Good luck with it...

Cheers

[TygerTung]

Nah the mufflers are fine, I don't have the hangers anymore.

The problem is that while there seems to have been a few wrecked, everyone who has spares for them wants a huge amount of money for any small piece. I don't really have a lot of spare money floating around, having a mortgage to pay and all that, so I don't want to spend any more money than I have to.

[Yow Ling]

Nah the mufflers are fine, I don't have the hangers anymore.

The problem is that while there seems to have been a few wrecked, everyone who has spares for them wants a huge amount of money for any small piece. I don't really have a lot of spare money floating around, having a mortgage to pay and all that, so I don't want to spend any more money than I have to.

just bring it out, easier to ask for forgiveness than permission

can run it at CAMs just how it is

[steveyb]

just bring it out, easier to ask for forgiveness than permission

can run it at CAMs just how it is

Running it at a club meeting in the 'modified' form will probably be fine, within reason, BUT do not turn up at NZSBK meeting with it in that form.
The rules are there so that the playing feild is level, and from all accounts the 'authorities' are going to be a lot stiffer on enforcement this coming season than over the past few.
It would be a very feeling shit to turn up with a bike that is outside the rules and be denied entry, not to mention putting some other poor bugger in the position of having to deny you entry. I reckon, unless that person is a total bastard, that they would feel worse than you.

BUT, the GPX is a great bike to get going in 250 Production with. They really work well. So if you can sort it out, do so and get out there.

[Billy]

Running it at a club meeting in the 'modified' form will probably be fine, within reason, BUT do not turn up at NZSBK meeting with it in that form.
The rules are there so that the playing feild is level, and from all accounts the 'authorities' are going to be a lot stiffer on enforcement this coming season than over the past few.
It would be a very feeling shit to turn up with a bike that is outside the rules and be denied entry, not to mention putting some other poor bugger in the position of having to deny you entry. I reckon, unless that person is a total bastard, that they would feel worse than you.

BUT, the GPX is a great bike to get going in 250 Production with. They really work well. So if you can sort it out, do so and get out there.

Well put Steve,Good on the op for asking the question and reading the rulebook,We need people to understand that their machinery needs to fit the rules for each class so that its fair for everybody and clowns like Yow Ling are the sort of people that create more and more work for the volunteers that have to deal with these issues at the coalface and as you have stated,More often than not it's those people that feel like shit when they have to turn somebody away.

[Billy]

just bring it out, easier to ask for forgiveness than permission

can run it at CAMs just how it is

What a complete idiot you are,

The op asked the question of how to make his machine comply with the MNZ rules for Prolite and here you are suggesting he just turn up with whatever and ask forgiveness,Good idea,Then you and your anti establishment mates can waste everybodys valuable time arguing that he should be allowed to race anyway cause your all "special" and the rules don't apply to you,In the meantime the bulk of the competitors are trying their hardest to comply,It just wastes a whole lot of resources that could otherwise be used to improve the sport.

[Billy]

I have a GPX250 here which a previous owner had savaged, I think perhaps he was wanting to turn it into a streetfighter or something?

I noticed that he has cut off some of the brackets on the rear subframe, Will this make the bike illegal for this class? Will I have to try and replicate these?

The muffler/footrest mounting hanger has been removed and the brackets have been cut off, would it be legal for me to make a new hanger out of steel, rather than having to try and cast a new aluminium one?

Is it legal to remove the wires from the loom which arn't in use anymore?, IE. the wiring for the lights and gauges etc which are no longer fitted, or do I just have to sort of tape these spare wires, plugs etc to the frame to stop them flapping around. I would prefer to remove them as it would be much tidier.

I don't have the original plastic mounting plates which the ignition unit, fusebox and regulator/rectifier are mounted to, can I just make one out of aluminium?

It didn't come with any fairings, is it legal to run in this class without them? I was just going to run the bike fully naked if aloud.

Can the radiator fan and wiring be removed?

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Sam

Hi Sam,

Thanks for bothering to ask,If everybody involved had your attitude we would all be a lot better off,Firstly,If you want a sensible and reasoned response,Kiwibiker is not the place to ask as youve probably worked out by now,Firstly not all the GPX models are homologated for the class,But to save you whole bunch of time searching for the information you require,Email me at mnzrrc@gmail.com and I'll deal with your concerns and queries so you know your bike will be with in the rules,Please do not listen to the EinSTEINs on here.

[Yow Ling]

What a complete idiot you are,

The op asked the question of how to make his machine comply with the MNZ rules for Prolite and here you are suggesting he just turn up with whatever and ask forgiveness,Good idea,Then you and your anti establishment mates can waste everybodys valuable time arguing that he should be allowed to race anyway cause your all "special" and the rules don't apply to you,In the meantime the bulk of the competitors are trying their hardest to comply,It just wastes a whole lot of resources that could otherwise be used to improve the sport.

If only you (mnz) could be so even handed when approached to clarify the bucket rules, the offical answer there was sort it out yourselves, you a clown too when you want to be !
Members have written to MNZ seeking clarification only to be ignored, when you poke a bit of fun at the prolite sacred cow you get instant response, the problem isnt me being anti establishment at all its just a matter of fair treatment. I guess the thread will just die now

[Grumph]

What a complete idiot you are,

The op asked the question of how to make his machine comply with the MNZ rules for Prolite and here you are suggesting he just turn up with whatever and ask forgiveness,Good idea,Then you and your anti establishment mates can waste everybodys valuable time arguing that he should be allowed to race anyway cause your all "special" and the rules don't apply to you,In the meantime the bulk of the competitors are trying their hardest to comply,It just wastes a whole lot of resources that could otherwise be used to improve the sport.

Calm down a tad, Billy. While I don't disagree with you re National Prolite rules, YowLing's answer was perfectly valid for an owner in ChCH. CAMS are running an OPEN 250 fourstroke/150 twostroke class this season and the OP's bike will b legal as is providing the mechanical safety boxes are ticked.
If he's on a limited budget and can't find the bits at an affordable price to make it prolite legal, it's still going to be another bike on track for the CAMS class which is a win/win for MNZ surely.

[TygerTung]

I just thought it would be good to have it on the forum, as then anyone else who was interested in the same information could read it here, so as to not get the same questions asked all the time.

f)
Passenger footpeg brackets may be unbolted only – NO cutting
allowed. In cases where the peg hanger is used as a muffler
bracket, it may be replaced with an alternative of the same
material or heavier


I think I should be alright with the exhaust hangers as the rules seem to state that I can make a new one out of a heavier material. Since I don't have a foundry setup in my backyard yet, I'll just make one out of steel.

i)
The fitment of an aftermarket sub frame supporting the seat
and tailpiece is allowed providing that the construction is as the
original OEM parts both in material, construction and design.
Items (battery, wiring, ecu, etc) must be fitted to the aftermarket
Sub frame in the same position as the original OEM fitment.


It would appear to be legal to construct a new subframe, so a factory one with 2 brackets removed should be ok I think.
As long as I can mount the regulator/rectifier, fuse box, and CDI unit in the same place, that should be within the regulations as well.
Looking at the rules again it would appear that the radiator fan and wiring can be removed.

n)
Carburettor jetting and slides. Fuel injected models may run
model specific” plug and play, Power Commander type” mixture
controllers.
NO other modifications/ alterations/ additions to fuel mixture
control, ignition curves or wiring loom are allowable
o)
Ignition, Engine control module/unit (ICM, ECU, ECM) and
wiring loom must remain standard.


The only thing I am uncertain of is the legalility of removing the redundant wiring for the lighting, indicators, brake lights etc. I think I am not permitted to do so, although looking at these regulations it would appear that it may be talking about the wiring loom for the ECU and ignition circuits.

Fairings are not listed the the list of things which are able to be removed, so I guess that I will not be allowed to run in the nationals unless I can try to find some fairings to replace the missing ones with.

Thank you for your responses everyone.

[Billy]

Calm down a tad, Billy. While I don't disagree with you re National Prolite rules, YowLing's answer was perfectly valid for an owner in ChCH. CAMS are running an OPEN 250 fourstroke/150 twostroke class this season and the OP's bike will b legal as is providing the mechanical safety boxes are ticked.
If he's on a limited budget and can't find the bits at an affordable price to make it prolite legal, it's still going to be another bike on track for the CAMS class which is a win/win for MNZ surely.

Absolutely agree re the class that CAM'S run and if that was the sole content of the reply,I would have made no comment,But the comment of just turn up and beg forgiveness is more than a little disruptive to the likes of Dennis and Angela Charlett,Merv Orford and the crew at MCI who are working hard to help get this class in order as are the rest of us at MNZ,Should also be noted that since I started working with them the development class has been introduced and appears to be flourishing.

[Billy]

If only you (mnz) could be so even handed when approached to clarify the bucket rules, the offical answer there was sort it out yourselves, you a clown too when you want to be !
Members have written to MNZ seeking clarification only to be ignored, when you poke a bit of fun at the prolite sacred cow you get instant response, the problem isnt me being anti establishment at all its just a matter of fair treatment. I guess the thread will just die now

Wow,You got me now,Or not,Since I took over running the commission in January this year,I have yet to receive an email of any sort re Miniature roadracing,I have however had a number of phone conversations with officials and helpers from Mt Wellington and the Wellington team on different aspects including the inception of a junior roadrace class for 8-10 year olds,I have briefed both Dennis Charlett and Andrew Presant on this,Maybe your just not kept in the loop for some reason,Whatever the problem is,Its not at MNZ.Maybe you can now clarify how that makes me a clown ?????

[Billy]

I just thought it would be good to have it on the forum, as then anyone else who was interested in the same information could read it here, so as to not get the same questions asked all the time.

f)
Passenger footpeg brackets may be unbolted only – NO cutting
allowed. In cases where the peg hanger is used as a muffler
bracket, it may be replaced with an alternative of the same
material or heavier


I think I should be alright with the exhaust hangers as the rules seem to state that I can make a new one out of a heavier material. Since I don't have a foundry setup in my backyard yet, I'll just make one out of steel.

i)
The fitment of an aftermarket sub frame supporting the seat
and tailpiece is allowed providing that the construction is as the
original OEM parts both in material, construction and design.
Items (battery, wiring, ecu, etc) must be fitted to the aftermarket
Sub frame in the same position as the original OEM fitment.


It would appear to be legal to construct a new subframe, so a factory one with 2 brackets removed should be ok I think.
As long as I can mount the regulator/rectifier, fuse box, and CDI unit in the same place, that should be within the regulations as well.
Looking at the rules again it would appear that the radiator fan and wiring can be removed.

n)
Carburettor jetting and slides. Fuel injected models may run
model specific” plug and play, Power Commander type” mixture
controllers.
NO other modifications/ alterations/ additions to fuel mixture
control, ignition curves or wiring loom are allowable
o)
Ignition, Engine control module/unit (ICM, ECU, ECM) and
wiring loom must remain standard.


The only thing I am uncertain of is the legalility of removing the redundant wiring for the lighting, indicators, brake lights etc. I think I am not permitted to do so, although looking at these regulations it would appear that it may be talking about the wiring loom for the ECU and ignition circuits.

Fairings are not listed the the list of things which are able to be removed, so I guess that I will not be allowed to run in the nationals unless I can try to find some fairings to replace the missing ones with.

Thank you for your responses everyone.

Not quite correct Sam,Thats why I suggested you contact me through the appropriate email address.

[Yow Ling]

Wow,You got me now,Or not,Since I took over running the commission in January this year,I have yet to receive an email of any sort re Miniature roadracing,I have however had a number of phone conversations with officials and helpers from Mt Wellington and the Wellington team on different aspects including the inception of a junior roadrace class for 8-10 year olds,I have briefed both Dennis Charlett and Andrew Presant on this,Maybe your just not kept in the loop for some reason,Whatever the problem is,Its not at MNZ.Maybe you can now clarify how that makes me a clown ?????

As you represent MNZ on matters of roadracing it hardly matters that you only have been in the position since January

A letter from Peter R

Subject: Re: MNZ rule clarification or rule change required
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 23:09:19 +1300

Hi again Gavin

The rule reads pretty clearly from where I'm looking - the use of competition engines and gearboxes is specifically disallowed ....... the ORIGINAL wording from 25 odd years ago is probably better, but what we have now is fine.

As one who was building and racing buckets from the first day they escaped the Airforce, I can tell you the intent of the original rules was to encourage the building of performance, not simply the buying of horsepower in the guise of factory race parts. So the rules specifically excluded the use of these .... and there was no such thing as RS125 framed MB100 cylindered MB50's either. But centre-hub steered G4TR's with watercooled RG cylinders grafted on were rightly applauded. Homemade alloy monocoques with VT250 headed CB125 engines were cool, and LEGAL

The Bucket community needs to be self-policing to an extent - if people are building bikes with illegal parts, suggest you do something about it by putting pressure on the guilty parties yourselves

Hope this helps ??????

Cheers
Peter R

What he is saying is if somebody cheats sort it out yourself, today you jump on me for even suggesting some gentle rulebending to get an extra competitor on the track

Getting clarification on a rule is harder than you think.

Over the last few months I have written three times to MNZ regarding clarification of the 24mm carb rule without any outcome, or even an acknowledgement, and yes I did phone the office to check they had receved them.

At the last Mt Welly meeting JC talked with the Road Race Commisioner about clarification of the carb rule so lets hope something comes of that.

Robert Willis iss a respected tuner and bucket racer in Aukland, he has nothing to gain by making this up

I think if you read the rule as it was written, but just separate the two main points, you have a perfectly valid interpretation that allows individual components,but NOT Engines ( a whole entity ) or Transmissions Parts ( a main component) from the competition bikes etc

like this

"Motocross, Road Racing, Enduro and Go Kart motors.......... and transmission parts are not permitted".

If you work this backwards for one type mentioned ,you can say.
"Transmission Parts from a Go Kart are not allowed"

and then you can say.
" Go Kart Motors" are not allowed.

Nowhere is there a statement included in the wording, that points to" Individual Parts from a Go Kart engine" are not allowed.

This is NOT a Loophole its a Black Hole thats so bloody obvious I dont understand why there could be any other legal interpretation.
Sorry guys, using a KT100 piston is just as legal as a KT100 rod/bearing/washers, but using a KT100 Engine is out.

This is a little like the F3 rules - where you can build an engine that contains ALL the parts from a GP roadracer,except for the cases that must be road bike based.

Here is the questionable rule that when seeking assistance from MNZ none was forthcoming

You are probably no more a clown than I am a complete idiot as you stated earlier, if you can make that judgement based on 10 words i posted on KB you have superpowers