Formula 450 for NZ?

[codgyoleracer]

Well the obvious fact to ignore is that there is already a class in Superlite for the 450 single as suggested here (excepting the stock engine idea) and they would still be reasnobly competitve in that if the frames were open as suggested.

The two concerns with pro-Twins from my view is
A) The limited range of machines that are currently manufactured , that can realisicaly compete
B) The amount of modifications allowed to them under the current regs. (but then again they were never proposed to be a "stock low cost beginners class" in the first place.

Those two could be fixed though and you could produce a low cost, production based class called something like "Pro-stocklite" and run the 450 singles in Billy spec could run with a truly stock "protwin" and even the old 400cc fours (not 450) and 250 proddy 2 strokes, would hang in there against those spec bikes, creating an immeadiate supply of bikes and riders for the class..........

GW

[crazy man]

Well the obvious fact to ignore is that there is already a class in Superlite for the 450 single as suggested here (excepting the stock engine idea) and they would still be reasnobly competitve in that if the frames were open as suggested.

The two concerns with pro-Twins from my view is
A) The limited range of machines that are currently manufactured , that can realisicaly compete
B) The amount of modifications allowed to them under the current regs. (but then again they were never proposed to be a "stock low cost beginners class" in the first place.

Those two could be fixed though and you could produce a low cost, production based class called something like "Pro-stocklite" and run the 450 singles in Billy spec could run with a truly stock "protwin" and even the old 400cc fours (not 450) and 250 proddy 2 strokes, would hang in there against those spec bikes, creating an immeadiate supply of bikes and riders for the class..........

GW

your right the old 400 fours and protwins lap times are the same and a 450 stock single engine in more a race frame would be close as well

[RobGassit]

You could call it Formula 3A or Formula What the?, or WTF for short.

[neil_cb125t]

Well the obvious fact to ignore is that there is already a class in Superlite for the 450 single as suggested here (excepting the stock engine idea) and they would still be reasnobly competitve in that if the frames were open as suggested.

The two concerns with pro-Twins from my view is
A) The limited range of machines that are currently manufactured , that can realisicaly compete
B) The amount of modifications allowed to them under the current regs. (but then again they were never proposed to be a "stock low cost beginners class" in the first place.

Those two could be fixed though and you could produce a low cost, production based class called something like "Pro-stocklite" and run the 450 singles in Billy spec could run with a truly stock "protwin" and even the old 400cc fours (not 450) and 250 proddy 2 strokes, would hang in there against those spec bikes, creating an immeadiate supply of bikes and riders for the class..........

GW

Totally

HOWEVER, This class has been created by VMCC that being the F3 Post classic and F3 Post 90s. 250 smokers and 400 4's.........without much sucess. Maybe ditch the years thing and just make it 400 4s and 250 proddy smokers. Stock Sv's and stock 400s aren't in teh same game in my mind.

What about a 2 stroke class - 0-250, and 350-500?

[neil_cb125t]

your right the old 400 fours and protwins lap times are the same and a 450 stock single engine in more a race frame would be close as well

Hmmm i seem to remmeber protwins smashing 15's and better manny? maybe i was too slow?? unfourtunatly watching Jonny small smash up Glen W in timaru has me thinking pro twins are a bit fast

[codgyoleracer]

Hmmm i seem to remmeber protwins smashing 15's and better manny? maybe i was too slow?? unfourtunatly watching Jonny small smash up Glen W in timaru has me thinking pro twins are a bit fast

A stock protwin aint that fast (see my "comment "truely stock pro-twin" ), i.e very very limited mods

[codgyoleracer]

Good spotting,I mucked up the frame and swing arm specs,Have edited it now,But as pointed out,Some WILL spend more than others,IE Ohlins spec forks,Carbonfibre wheels,TTX Rear shock,Where it differs from Superlite is all the engines will be roughly the same HP,Not as it is in Superlite at present,You will notice it also states "POSSIBLE" specs,As I have already said it hasn't even been mentioned to the rest of the commission yet,Just fishing for feedback at the mo.

Billy you prick, 10 minuits and youve already change the rules on me...................... :-), makes my post irrelevant

[neil_cb125t]

A stock protwin aint that fast (see my "comment "truely stock pro-twin" ), i.e very very limited mods

Fair enough matey - makes sence

[crazy man]

Hmmm i seem to remmeber protwins smashing 15's and better manny? maybe i was too slow?? unfourtunatly watching Jonny small smash up Glen W in timaru has me thinking pro twins are a bit fast

what lap time did Jonny small do at manfeild? + your 750 kit is ready to be picked up lol you know what it is

[Shorty_925]

450 Singles are good idea, though tend to think if there was a demand/need for it, people would have built the bikes, then raced in F3 to at least give it a crack.

Will be interesting to see what happens if the series takes off in OZ, as it never really took off in the USA.

The re-builds wont be cheap and using it on a road race track, you'll be needing plenty of them.

Like all road racing though, its not cheap, thats why I think most of the Motard guys have stopped. Compare the club day mx entry to a road race club day entry or the same for a national mx v national road race fee.

[steveyb]

In principle they sound like a good idea, but it would seem that in practice they are not that great. The F450 thing has been around for quite a few years now in the USA, with the crowd that were pushing it making examples of all of the main brands.
But it has failed to take off in any form with the wider racing public.
Maybe it is the cost? Kits are available.
Maybe they just are not that great to ride?
Maybe if a critical mass had been reached it would have taken off?

To date I think we have had only one built and raced in NZ (Aprilia).
Maybe Tim can tell us if it was/is worth the effort?

[xr-rider]

What ever happened to the rmz450 that was done like that?

[Billy]

Billy you prick, 10 minuits and youve already change the rules on me...................... :-), makes my post irrelevant

Well thats odd...We on the commission find most of your comments irrelevant,But OK I'll go along with ya!

[Billy]

In principle they sound like a good idea, but it would seem that in practice they are not that great. The F450 thing has been around for quite a few years now in the USA, with the crowd that were pushing it making examples of all of the main brands.
But it has failed to take off in any form with the wider racing public.
Maybe it is the cost? Kits are available.
Maybe they just are not that great to ride?
Maybe if a critical mass had been reached it would have taken off?

To date I think we have had only one built and raced in NZ (Aprilia).
Maybe Tim can tell us if it was/is worth the effort?

Add Lyndon from Boyds RMZ plus the CRF he did before that and Todd Ackroyds one makes four,Only problem I see is they are just not competitive at National level against our Superlite machinery,With their own class that may well change,Also they have just introduced them to formula xtreme in Aussie.

[Fozzzy]

They look great but I reckon they will be a bit to much effort for the young guys that actually need to ride them. Its a shame no one makes 250cc 2 stroke road bikes anymore they seem to be a good option for an inbetween race class. Are there enough still around to get 10 or 15 of them to the track? Maybe if you keep the 650 class and put the 450 bikes in with them? They would be about the same speed