Formula 450 for NZ?

[Johnnyc34]

....out of the way. Who can help me out with the right bits and some knowledge!

[budda]

....out of the way. Who can help me out with the right bits and some knowledge!

One of Life's mysteries : anyone else ever wonder why some people ask questions when they KNOW the answer ?

[Johnnyc34]

Well after street race next month we shall make it happen!

[lostinflyz]

i've been offering to help someone build one of these for an age. if you want to do it flick me a PM.

[neil_cb125t]

The YRD kit being sold in aussie is just the Beon Automotive kit (450gp.com). It is rather expensive, but does have lots of mods and is a straight bolt up job.

There are much cheaper equally effective methods of doing similar mods, but do require more hands on work/machining. i'd love to build one or help out to get a couple underway, i have 90% of the bits you would need (incl the fairings shown on the 450/YRD/Beon kit - they are essentially universal fairings with bracket kits) and a decent grasp of the knowledge. Send me a PM!!!

This sort of thing just shows what can be done, I do not agree with adding classes to an already saturated market, particularly taking bikes out of one class to start their own. In the VERY short space of time I have been doing it, watering down classes does not work at all, look at 1000 and 600 pro-stock or what ever it was called. Rubbish waste of time now cancelled. Look at the Post classics attempt changing from 2 classes to 3, lesser entries than ever. my opinion is to return to F1 F2 and F3 only, more competitors in each class - would we rather have 30 people in 3 classes battling it out than 15 or less?

Those who were at Wanganui saw how effective this type of machine was - Scotty M smashed us all on his 450 single. And they defo can be built cheaper than the Aussie price. Time is your killer - tim, glen W, Gimpy can tell you how much sticking power you need to build something different..... mines taken 2 years, 1 year of building and 1 year of researching and saving.....shame they changed the rules in F3 during that time but thats another thread!

[jellywrestler]

Rubbish waste of time now cancelled.

I wouldn't be as harsh as that, it gave people an option which those same people asked for ran ok for a while till the people who build the bikes voted with their builds and it became redundant for most

[neil_cb125t]

I wouldn't be as harsh as that, it gave people an option which those same people asked for ran ok for a while till the people who build the bikes voted with their builds and it became redundant for most

yeah probably a bit harsh, it was an option, I understood its principles but thought it would not catch on. Your right, people chose to not build a cheaper watered down version......if we had rules and classes that didn't change every other year then it would be easier for those to establish themselves into the class they desired.

When Mr 600 stock class was made the rules were ohlins rear shock is ok, then the next year they said no ohlins shocks, so guys had to buy std ones! hilarious!

I suspect more big singles and experimental 2 smokers will grace us with their presence in F3 - this is a good thing.

[budda]

This sort of thing just shows what can be done, I do not agree with adding classes to an already saturated market, particularly taking bikes out of one class to start their own. In the VERY short space of time I have been doing it, watering down classes does not work at all, look at 1000 and 600 pro-stock or what ever it was called. Rubbish waste of time now cancelled. Look at the Post classics attempt changing from 2 classes to 3, lesser entries than ever. my opinion is to return to F1 F2 and F3 only, more competitors in each class - would we rather have 30 people in 3 classes battling it out than 15 or less?

Those who were at Wanganui saw how effective this type of machine was - Scotty M smashed us all on his 450 single. And they defo can be built cheaper than the Aussie price. Time is your killer - tim, glen W, Gimpy can tell you how much sticking power you need to build something different..... mines taken 2 years, 1 year of building and 1 year of researching and saving.....shame they changed the rules in F3 during that time but thats another thread!

So in the last 2 years, what changed in the rules that so disadvantaged you ? I ask only because effectively NOTHING has changed ..............

[neil_cb125t]

So in the last 2 years, what changed in the rules that so disadvantaged you ? I ask only because effectively NOTHING has changed ..............

400cc 2 strokes.....?

[eelracing]

400cc 2 strokes.....?

Never mind Neil.If it all helps my dear old Nan once sat me down when I was a nipper and gave me this pearl of wisdom.

Sonny,someday you will make a girl very happy,for a short period of time.
Then she'll leave you and be with new men who are ten times better than you could ever hope to be.
These men are called two stroke racers.

[neil_cb125t]

Never mind Neil.If it all helps my dear old Nan once sat me down when I was a nipper and gave me this pearl of wisdom.

Sonny,someday you will make a girl very happy,for a short period of time.
Then she'll leave you and be with new men who are ten times better than you could ever hope to be.
These men are called two stroke racers.

Funny the airforce has the same quote - only there called pilots.

I wish I was one, sound much better than my tractor

[Johnnyc34]

Right.....

Read very carefully! I will admit, I am not the most intelligent man in the race paddock. But it seems to me everyone has missed the point.

Moto GP has 5 brands
Superbikes has 5 brands
The motorcycle industry on a whole has 5 main brands who are road racing competitively

In our country:

We have a 250 Production class that has 2 main brands in it.

We have a 600cc and 1000 class that has 4 brands competing in it on a good week.

We have a f3 class that has an absolute rif rafe of different type of bikes. Not saying that's a bad thing. Just a massive mixture of bikes, competing on different levels which mainly comes down to $$ they invest.

Hope your with me so far........

So.....here we have a concept. Take a production 450 MX bike that the 5 main brands compete in superbike and moto gp, (they all make a model that fits, is approx same weight and horse power). The general bike fan that has a toy in the garage he rides on the road, reads the kiwi rider mag and bike rider mag already has a connection with these brands. Take some bloke that builds and f3 bike out of some random engine and chassis he mocked up in his shed over winter, the general public that rides bikes has no emotional connection to that, as cool and interesting as it is 90% of our spectators just can't relate to that. To them it looks like a lot of work and energy to build and get involved if they ever wanted to. Instant put off.

The concept behind moto 450 class, you take brand of motorcycles that the general motorcycle population has a brand awareness with. Something they can relate to. Most of them have that brand in there shed or they rode it to the track to watch us race. They get excited by this want to get involved. Maybe get a bike themselves and have a crack.

So they come along and watch this 450 class in action, lets say there ten on the track. They find out, all you need is a 450 MX bike, just like what there mates have got...they can relate to this, they find out that there is a simple way of getting this machine on the track, by fitting up a road kit. Wheels, brakes, suspension bolt ons, fairing and rear sets, buying some gear. BOLT ON! SIMPLE! QUICK. EASY. We live in a nano second society. People these days need things to happen fast to stay interested, especially young people. Must happen instantly at least to start with to keep them interested and involved. Best part is this won't cost them 15k, or 25 k to get involved. Its could be done as cheaply as $5 6k. They look cool, just like the GP bikes we see on tele, once again something they can relate to, branding and looks.

THERE IS A MUCH BIGGER PICTURE HERE!! MOTORCYCLING IS ON THE DECLINE!! THIS ISN'T ABOUT US!! WE ARE ALREADY RACING AND BEING INVOLVED! THIS IS ABOUT AN AFFORDABLE FORM OF RACING THAT REACHES THE EMOTIONS OF A MUCH BROADER RANGE OF PEOPLE! PEOPLE THAT CAN RELATE TO BRAND AWARENESS. PEOPLE THAT CAN RELATE TO A MACHINE THAT LOOKS LIKE WHAT THE SEE ON TELE! BUT IS WITH IN REACH FINANCIALLY FOR THE COST OF A CAR AND WITH A LITTLE INSTRUCTION AND MAINTENANCE WONT COST A FORTUNE TO RUN! YOU WON"T NEED A SPECIALIZED RACE MECHANIC TO REBUILD AND SERVICE AS EVERY BIKE SHOP HAS MECHANICS THAT CAN SERVICE THESE ENGINES AND REPAIR. MUCH BIGGER PICTURE PEOPLE!!

That's my rant on that side.

The other side of it from my point of view is we can have some serious fun. These wee bikes will be fast. Rules will be easy to enforce. Racing will be close as everyone one truly be on an equal playing field with out spending a fortune. Yes it will take a clever few of us to get the formula right. But we will get it right. It will be awesome.

That is all.

[budda]

400cc 2 strokes.....?

Been in there for at least the last 2 years - and now the Track is over-run with the things, no-one else can get a look in !!!!

[tail_end_charlie]

Right.....

Read very carefully! I will admit, I am not the most intelligent man in the race paddock. But it seems to me everyone has missed the point.

Moto GP has 5 brands 3 brands (Honda, Yamaha and Ducati, two of which are competative and CRT don't really count)
Superbikes has 5 brands 6 brands (Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Aprilla, Ducati, and BMW. No Yamaha in 2012 and probably none in 2013)
The motorcycle industry on a whole has 5 main brands 7 (Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Aprilla, BMW, KTM, Ducati) who are road racing competitively

In our country:

We have a 250 Production class that has 2 main brands in it. Well, 3 (Kawasaki, Honda, Hyosung) but nobody here races a Honda 250 and the new Kawaki is a 300. So yeah, thats one problem with the 250 proddie racing here at the moment

We have a 600cc and 1000 class that has 4 brands competing in it on a good week.

We have a f3 class that has an absolute rif rafe of different type of bikes. Not saying that's a bad thing. Just a massive mixture of bikes, competing on different levels which mainly comes down to $$ they invest.

Hope your with me so far........

So.....here we have a concept. Take a production 450 MX bike that the 5 main brands compete in superbike and moto gp not quite, see above, (they all make a model that fits, is approx same weight and horse power). The general bike fan that has a toy in the garage he rides on the road, reads the kiwi rider mag and bike rider mag already has a connection with these brands. Take some bloke that builds and f3 bike out of some random engine and chassis he mocked up in his shed over winter, the general public that rides bikes has no emotional connection to that, as cool and interesting as it is 90% of our spectators just can't relate to that. To them it looks like a lot of work and energy to build and get involved if they ever wanted to. Instant put off. I'll disagree personally with that statement, but I see the point you are trying to make.

The concept behind moto 450 class, you take brand of motorcycles that the general motorcycle population has a brand awareness with. Something they can relate to. Most of them have that brand in there shed or they rode it to the track to watch us race. They get excited by this want to get involved. Maybe get a bike themselves and have a crack.

So they come along and watch this 450 class in action, lets say there ten on the track. They find out, all you need is a 450 MX bike, just like what there mates have got...they can relate to this, they find out that there is a simple way of getting this machine on the track, by fitting up a road kit. Wheels, brakes, suspension bolt ons, fairing and rear sets, buying some gear. BOLT ON! SIMPLE! QUICK. EASY. If the thought of mating a certain engine in a different chassis with custom suspension and such that you get with SOME of the F3 bikes is a foreign concept to these people, I doubt they will be up to the task of modifying a MX bike to take to the track and race. And that is just to get it on the track, then you start trying to get the bike set-up and working well doing something completely different from its original intended purpose. Granted, I haven't tried to do this with an MX bike, but I think there is a little more to it than just buy some wheels and suspension and bolt them on.

We live in a nano second society. People these days need things to happen fast to stay interested, especially young people. Must happen instantly at least to start with to keep them interested and involved. Best part is this won't cost them 15k, or 25 k to get involved. Its could be done as cheaply as $5 6k. They look cool, just like the GP bikes we see on tele, once again something they can relate to, branding and looks. I have a feeling it won't be any cheaper than going out and buying a old SV and running it in Pro-twins/F3, and more expensive than going out and buying a Ninja 250 and racing it

THERE IS A MUCH BIGGER PICTURE HERE!! MOTORCYCLING IS ON THE DECLINE!! THIS ISN'T ABOUT US!! WE ARE ALREADY RACING AND BEING INVOLVED! THIS IS ABOUT AN AFFORDABLE FORM OF RACING THAT REACHES THE EMOTIONS OF A MUCH BROADER RANGE OF PEOPLE! PEOPLE THAT CAN RELATE TO BRAND AWARENESS. PEOPLE THAT CAN RELATE TO A MACHINE THAT LOOKS LIKE WHAT THE SEE ON TELE! They probably see a hell of a lot more superbikes/supersport bikes racing on TV than they do modified MX bikes. And I think that your putting too much emphasis on brand awareness/loyalty. Anybody who has a Honda 450 MX bike in the garage knows that the road racing isn't anything to do with his bike. BUT IS WITH IN REACH FINANCIALLY FOR THE COST OF A CAR AND WITH A LITTLE INSTRUCTION AND MAINTENANCE WONT COST A FORTUNE TO RUN! YOU WON"T NEED A SPECIALIZED RACE MECHANIC TO REBUILD AND SERVICE AS EVERY BIKE SHOP HAS MECHANICS THAT CAN SERVICE THESE ENGINES AND REPAIR. MUCH BIGGER PICTURE PEOPLE!!

That's my rant on that side.

The other side of it from my point of view is we can have some serious fun. These wee bikes will be fast. Rules will be easy to enforce. Racing will be close as everyone one truly be on an equal playing field with out spending a fortune. Yes it will take a clever few of us to get the formula right. But we will get it right. It will be awesome.

That is all.

That being said, I think there could be some potential for the class, but it wouldn't be a class that would bring people into racing in the droves. Especially when they look at the amount of work they would have to do to convert the MX bike to be able to road race it. Hell of a lot easier to throw a set of racing fairings on their Supersport and race that.

[neil_cb125t]

Ill admit I have not had a look at this entire post - I see you haven't included pro twin/ the SV650 class within F3. This is the area I am focusing on. I think we are agreeing kinda...... more brands in each class, less specialist classes....

Right.....

Read very carefully! I will admit, I am not the most intelligent man in the race paddock. But it seems to me everyone has missed the point.

Moto GP has 5 brands
Superbikes has 5 brands
The motorcycle industry on a whole has 5 main brands who are road racing competitively

In our country:

We have a 250 Production class that has 2 main brands in it.

We have a 600cc and 1000 class that has 4 brands competing in it on a good week.

We have a f3 class that has an absolute rif rafe of different type of bikes. Not saying that's a bad thing. Just a massive mixture of bikes, competing on different levels which mainly comes down to $$ they invest.

Hope your with me so far........

So.....here we have a concept. Take a production 450 MX bike that the 5 main brands compete in superbike and moto gp, (they all make a model that fits, is approx same weight and horse power). The general bike fan that has a toy in the garage he rides on the road, reads the kiwi rider mag and bike rider mag already has a connection with these brands. Take some bloke that builds and f3 bike out of some random engine and chassis he mocked up in his shed over winter, the general public that rides bikes has no emotional connection to that, as cool and interesting as it is 90% of our spectators just can't relate to that. To them it looks like a lot of work and energy to build and get involved if they ever wanted to. Instant put off.

The concept behind moto 450 class, you take brand of motorcycles that the general motorcycle population has a brand awareness with. Something they can relate to. Most of them have that brand in there shed or they rode it to the track to watch us race. They get excited by this want to get involved. Maybe get a bike themselves and have a crack.

So they come along and watch this 450 class in action, lets say there ten on the track. They find out, all you need is a 450 MX bike, just like what there mates have got...they can relate to this, they find out that there is a simple way of getting this machine on the track, by fitting up a road kit. Wheels, brakes, suspension bolt ons, fairing and rear sets, buying some gear. BOLT ON! SIMPLE! QUICK. EASY. We live in a nano second society. People these days need things to happen fast to stay interested, especially young people. Must happen instantly at least to start with to keep them interested and involved. Best part is this won't cost them 15k, or 25 k to get involved. Its could be done as cheaply as $5 6k. They look cool, just like the GP bikes we see on tele, once again something they can relate to, branding and looks.

THERE IS A MUCH BIGGER PICTURE HERE!! MOTORCYCLING IS ON THE DECLINE!! THIS ISN'T ABOUT US!! WE ARE ALREADY RACING AND BEING INVOLVED! THIS IS ABOUT AN AFFORDABLE FORM OF RACING THAT REACHES THE EMOTIONS OF A MUCH BROADER RANGE OF PEOPLE! PEOPLE THAT CAN RELATE TO BRAND AWARENESS. PEOPLE THAT CAN RELATE TO A MACHINE THAT LOOKS LIKE WHAT THE SEE ON TELE! BUT IS WITH IN REACH FINANCIALLY FOR THE COST OF A CAR AND WITH A LITTLE INSTRUCTION AND MAINTENANCE WONT COST A FORTUNE TO RUN! YOU WON"T NEED A SPECIALIZED RACE MECHANIC TO REBUILD AND SERVICE AS EVERY BIKE SHOP HAS MECHANICS THAT CAN SERVICE THESE ENGINES AND REPAIR. MUCH BIGGER PICTURE PEOPLE!!

That's my rant on that side.

The other side of it from my point of view is we can have some serious fun. These wee bikes will be fast. Rules will be easy to enforce. Racing will be close as everyone one truly be on an equal playing field with out spending a fortune. Yes it will take a clever few of us to get the formula right. But we will get it right. It will be awesome.

That is all.