Sustainable population

[hayd3n]

with vaccines?

[mashman]

with vaccines?

tin foil hat required at table 2.

[Maki]

a) i didn't.
b)
c) kill everyone. problem solved.
nuclear winter. H bombs, anthrax. osama bin laden. whatever. just kill them.
(you need to offset global populatio growth with the 4000 children who die an hour from starvation.)
d) 70% of available water is water. humans are 70% water. most trees are too. i'm pretty sure the ocean still is...

if you're THAT concerned. become a fruitarian. don't drive anywhere (there's some tonnage of water required to make a vehicle, plus manufacture and transport fuels), get the fuck off your PC (a PC uses over 1000 litres of water to make) and don't use anything electric. disconnect your town supply and start catching rain. (which may be illegal where you are)
not an attack at you personally, but people are bad for the planet. and while everyone loves to piss and moan and put a fucking greenpeace bumper sticker on their car, they do very little to actually minimise their negative impact on the environment.

Why should you have to become a fruitarian? Why should there not be plenty for everyone to eat and why should everyone not be free to choose what he or she eats? Oh, yes, because there are already too many people and too little food. Why should I not use a vehicle? Why should I not use a PC? Oh yes, because we are not at the stage where we have the ability to see our species and our planet as a whole system and act in a way that benefits us and the natural world. We need to save water because there are already too many people.

You can minimize a single person's impact on the planet all you like but that is not going to make an iota of difference. The only thing that can make a difference is to minimize our total impact. There are many ways to do this. You could have the same planetary population as we have now and ration food, fuel and water in a way that is fair and equal to everyone. If we do that, then YOU will be in for a hell of a shock because your lifestyle is going to take big a hit. If you live in a western country you will see a reduction in calories you consume, a huge reduction in meat and travel will be severely curtailed. We can continue to increase the population and we will see wars that will make the first and second world wars look like a kindergarten fight. We will see famine and desertification on a staggering scale. Finally we can make an informed decision do decrease our population to a level that can sustainably provide what we here in the west call a good lifestyle to EVERYONE. (This is very difficult for many to grasp, especially since there is an old book that says that God told us to multiply).

These choices are there for us to make. I just doubt we will have the maturity to make them. Most people seem more worried about whether their neighbor who is not the same skin color as he is will have more kids and that "they" will then somehow take over... Making choices for the human race or the planet just does not enter into their mind space.

[Akzle]

Why should you have to become a fruitarian?
so as you're not killing anything. not relying on mass farming techniques etc. exiting in harmony with the planet
Why should there not be plenty for everyone to eat and why should everyone not be free to choose what he or she eats?
there is. more than. but it is not evenly distributed. america wastes enough food in a lazy afternoon to feed most of africa for the day.
Oh, yes, because there are already too many people and too little food.
as above (you're wrong)
Why should I not use a vehicle?
pretty sure i explained that, round 1.

Oh yes, because we are not at the stage where we have the ability to see our species and our planet as a whole system and act in a way that benefits us and the natural world.
i disagree. i'm at that point. past it even.
IDGAF about shit really. i just try and live a good life and push my views whenever the opportunity arises.
We need to save water because there are already too many people.
this is con-train-dic-a-tory to what you said above. there is X amount of water on the planet. none is coming or going. we're not making any. it's all there. (as is everything else - molecularly.)
now, if you're not smart enough to argue with einstein's theory of relativity, you must accept that matter and energy are neither created, nor destroyed. and being that "you", and the "human experience" that you're having is apparently matter and energy, indeed, "you" are matter and energy:
you must also accept that the matter and energy that you experience is exactly the same as what has always existed.

how's that for big-picture thinkin'?
You can minimize a single person's impact on the planet all you like but that is not going to make an iota of difference.
it's called karma. look into it.
...ration food, fuel and water in a way that is fair and equal to everyone. If we do that, then YOU will be in for a hell of a shock because your lifestyle is going to take big a hit.
you haven't really been following me, have you? i basically exist off grid. i grow/kill/farm a large amount of what i eat. it wouldn't be too hard for me to make that amount 100%. i also keep a supply of #00 buckshot to make sure i don't have to share it with anyone =)
my lifestyle will change very little, come the apocalypse. except i'm'a have to shoot all you cunts when you turn up at my place hungry.
If you live in a western country you will see a reduction in calories you consume, a huge reduction in meat and travel will be severely curtailed.
as above.
and that's a very sweeping statement. i am involved with several communities/ societies that will see out the end of days. and i don't go too far (ie they're all "in a western country") i'm also working on the bio diesel thing (albeit slowly)...
We can continue to increase the population and we will see wars that will make the first and second world wars look like a kindergarten fight. We will see famine and desertification on a staggering scale.
we already do. it's not getting better, either.
Finally we can make an informed decision do decrease our population to a level that can sustainably provide what we here in the west call a good lifestyle to EVERYONE. (This is very difficult for many to grasp, especially since there is an old book that says that God told us to multiply).
nature will do that for us. AIDS, cancer, brain hemorrhage. something will get you. as above-above. there is only so much matter in existence. nature will shuffle it as it sees fit.
the existence of ANY number of humans, living as they do "in western countries" is bad for the planet.
These choices are there for us to make. I just doubt we will have the maturity to make them. Most people seem more worried about whether their neighbor who is not the same skin color as he is will have more kids and that "they" will then somehow take over... Making choices for the human race or the planet just does not enter into their mind space.
i'm not sure where you live. that hasn't been a mindset i've observed in over a decade.

woooooooow. bob is sleepy now.