Hi-viz, does it make a difference in rider visibility?

[bogan]

As for motorcycles as a vehicle being safe, in a motor accident its not the motorcycle that's covered by ACC or is 'hurt', but the person who is riding it.

As for high-vis as a clothing being safe, in a motor accident its not the clothing that's covered by ACC or is 'hurt', but the person who is wearing it.

Double standards much?

[Marius Elvenwood]

Personally I believe those who choose to wear high-vis are safety conscious, and have less accidents because they ride in a safe manner.

We must remember high vis is not a substitute for checking other road users have seen you, otherwise high vis will be associated with an increased accident risk due to rider style.

A good point and well said. But for beginner riders who haven't yet learnt how to ride in a safe manner perhaps it's a different story?
Either way, it would be best if nobody has a false sense of security. You're on a motorbike therefore you're invisible etc.

[paturoa]

The poll is not well constructed. Of course hi-vis makes a difference, which is why I voted yes.

The question should have read, "does hi-vis make a big difference". If that was the question, then I'd have voted no.

And I wear hi-vis because every % point counts, even if it is bugger all.

[Matariki]

Clothing is easy to spot and judge a person by, but lets be honest, it isn't the main factor. Try watching peoples riding style instead, that what gets you into an accident. And watching other peoples style is a good way to improve your own. However if you just want to make empty 'feel good' judgments putting down other riders, then high vis is for you!

The study is skewed as it does not normalise for rider type, bike type, or route. All it establishes is those who voluntarily (and without reading studies) wear high vis have less accidents; do you see the difference? The study makes no attempt to establish that the wearing of high vis is the cause for less accidents. Personally I believe those who choose to wear high-vis are safety conscious, and have less accidents because they ride in a safe manner.

We must remember high vis is not a substitute for checking other road users have seen you, otherwise high vis will be associated with an increased accident risk due to rider style.

Point taken. Though I don't wear Hi-Viz to make feel good judgement's, I wear it because I think it could even the odds out a little bit better when I'm on the road. But I wonder why those who wearing Hi-Viz had less accidents in the test? Could that be because those that are more experienced (and maybe less reckless) are wearing them? I'll have to re read through the test papers again.

[Matariki]

The poll is not well constructed. Of course hi-vis makes a difference, which is why I voted yes.

The question should have read, "does hi-vis make a big difference". If that was the question, then I'd have voted no.

And I wear hi-vis because every % point counts, even if it is bugger all.

I asking whether or not it made any notable difference in reducing the number of accidents due to motorists being more visible. I guess that could interpreted as being a 'big difference'. But I guess the heart of question I'm really asking is; "Are motorcyclists more visible when wearing Hi-Viz?" If the answer is yes, then I think right there is a justified reason to wear Hi-Viz, because I'm sure as hell I'm not wearing Hi-Viz for its fashion looks.

[Matariki]

As for high-vis as a clothing being safe, in a motor accident its not the clothing that's covered by ACC or is 'hurt', but the person who is wearing it.

Double standards much?

Only if you think Hi-Viz will give you superior protection (though I'm under the impression that the best protection is not to be hit or ride recklessly in the first place). Hi-Viz is for visibility (which is what the discussion was originally about - I should of stated this from the beginning to avoid confusion), not for bodily protection on impact.

[paturoa]

I asking whether or not it made any notable difference in reducing the number of accidents due to motorists being more visible.

I read a European report somewhere that hi-vis wearer smidsy accident rates are lower than non-wearers and the pollies wanted to make them compulsory. What was not asked was, do the peeps who wear hi-vis ride differently to non-wearers? The answer is an easy yes. But that is kind of off topic.

I still say yes a small difference, but not "noteable" (Whatever that means?)

Edit: BDOTGNZA-philes, should that have read "...an European.."? It doesn't sound right.

[wasiler]

I would think the high viz reflective material would help at night because when the oncoming light hits it, it produces a larger glowing object to see. During the day, it is not going to mean jack. Where I am from, the bikes and popo bikes are allowed to have a small blue led light on the back of their bike. These are great for a couple reasons. One, it makes a contrasting color from all the reds and whites and lets you stand out more. Two, a drunk driver behind you might think you are a popo and keep way off your tail. I read here it is illegal to put colors other than red in the back and white in the front. I am going to give the blues dots in the back a try and hope the cop understands if they pull me over. I don't want to get hit by a drunk from behind and it is absolutely crazy how easy you guys are on drunk driving...from at least what I have heard. The only way to improve viz during the day I think is a headlight modulator. Then you have got to worry about a driver coming at you from the sides......


I got it, attach a flashing blue police light on top of your helmet, add an air-raid siren to each side of your bike, install bumpers around the entire bike with air-bags that inflate around the rider, finally an ejection seat with a parachute when the impact g's get too high.

[Matariki]

We must remember high vis is not a substitute for checking other road users have seen you, otherwise high vis will be associated with an increased accident risk due to rider style.

Yes I agree, nor is it a justified reason to ride recklessly. But if it can increase the likely hood of being spotted while riding (in conjunction with riding safely), then I think the investment is worth it.

[Matariki]

I would think the high viz reflective material would help at night because when the oncoming light hits it, it produces a larger glowing object to see. During the day, it is not going to mean jack. Where I am from, the bikes and popo bikes are allowed to have a small blue led light on the back of their bike. These are great for a couple reasons. One, it makes a contrasting color from all the reds and whites and lets you stand out more. Two, a drunk driver behind you might think you are a popo and keep way off your tail. I read here it is illegal to put colors other than red in the back and white in the front. I am going to give the blues dots in the back a try and hope the cop understands if they pull me over. I don't want to get hit by a drunk from behind and it is absolutely crazy how easy you guys are on drunk driving...from at least what I have heard. The only way to improve viz during the day I think is a headlight modulator. Then you have got to worry about a driver coming at you from the sides......


I got it, attach a flashing blue police light on top of your helmet, add an air-raid siren to each side of your bike, install bumpers around the entire bike with air-bags that inflate around the rider, finally an ejection seat with a parachute when the impact g's get too high.

Lol, yes I know what you mean. I agree, I don't think Hi-Viz makes too much of a difference on a fine, sunny day. But on a day with less than desirable weather (rainy or overcast) I've found from driving around town, I am more likely to notice the motorcyclists who are wearing Hi-Viz, same with driving around at dusk, dawn and at night.

[Bassmatt]

The other part to this eternal question is "Is high visibility clothing the BEST way to improve your visibility to other road users"
I have tried hi-vis for a time and had to say I didn't really notice much of a difference in the behaviour towards me of other road users.
About a year ago I changed my dull yellow running lights (not sure if thats technically the correct term for them) with a small bright white led.
Within 5 minutes of leaving home I knew that I was onto something. Cars on my side would pull over to allow me past before I got anywhere near them, cars at intersections seemed to be prepared to wait longer for me to approach and go past rather than just going whenever. Yes I still get the odd vehicle pull out in front of me when they shouldn't but instead of the drivers looking surprised when they see me I get them looking straight into my eyes as if to say"yeah I saw you mate... ".
I have been told by others that I can be seen literally miles away.
I've passed two warrants with them and had a couple of "roadside chats" with the popo while having them installed and they havent been mentioned once, so I'm not talking about huge bliinding lights or anything obviously not allowed.

All this is anecdotal of course, but Im convinced.

[James Deuce]

I would think the high viz reflective material would help at night because when the oncoming light hits it, it produces a larger glowing object to see.

Err, no. The light from you headlight completely masks you and what you're wearing.

[James Deuce]

The other part to this eternal question is "Is high visibility clothing the BEST way to improve your visibility to other road users"
I have tried hi-vis for a time and had to say I didn't really notice much of a difference in the behaviour towards me of other road users.
About a year ago I changed my dull yellow running lights (not sure if thats technically the correct term for them) with a small bright white led.
Within 5 minutes of leaving home I knew that I was onto something. Cars on my side would pull over to allow me passed before I got anywhere near them, cars at intersections seemed to be prepared to wait longer for me to approach and go past rather than just going whenever. Yes I still get the odd vehicle pull out in front of me when they shouldn't but instead of the drivers looking surprised when they see me I get them looking straight into my eyes as if to say"yeah I saw you mate... ".
I have been told by others that I can be seen literally miles away.
I've passed two warrants with them and had a couple of "roadside chats" with the popo while having them installed and they havent been mentioned once, so I'm not talking about huge bliinding lights or anything obviously not allowed.

All this is anecdotal of course, but Im convinced.

If it's good enough for Audi....

[tnarg]

A little bit of reading to add to the debate.

http://www.magireland.org/2011/campa...vers-eye-view/
http://www.lampkins.co.uk/blog/why-s...idents-happen/

[Matariki]

I was talking to my Dad about this who's an Optometrist by profession and has over 25 years of experience in his field. He said that yes, Hi-Viz does make a difference, especially the fluorescent yellow (he said that orange is ok, red is the least likely out of three to be visible) in terms of visibility. He also stated that this is why riding with your motorcycle lights on also makes you more visible (especially if the lights are LED). I suspect that any color that reflects off (in terms of light) and contrasts with the environment that you're riding in will be the most visible.

From my understanding, Hi-Viz it is most effective from the side and rear (unless the rider is wearing a backpack) views. As for the front view, I'm not sure, I would imagine at night time it wouldn't be very visible due the headlamp. But during the day it might be different (I didn't ask my Dad about that). Here are some video's of Hi-Viz;

This is a video from the front and 45 degree angle views (I suspect this was taken late in the afternoon or at dusk)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ODGEN-vG-g

This is a video from the behind and side angle views (It looks like that it was filmed around dusk)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTrvCSlCEeY