Now something like a new RC30 - that'd be a good story

[HenryDorsetCase]

Honda are in trouble if they need to look back at old stuff to inspire the new....

I am still waiting for the dealer to call me to tell me my CB1100F has arrived.

[jellywrestler]

Honda are in trouble if they need to look back at old stuff to inspire the new....

so when the flat four watercooled shaft driven GOLD WING came out in 1975 it was a mistake, cause Holden brought out a flat four watercooled shaft driven bike in 1898.

[willytheekid]

...oh please god yes!

as for honda's V4's history-
http://world.honda.com/V4-story/
Had a NC30 road/race bike many years ago...thrashed the shit out of it, raced it, crashed it, scratched it, you name it!...bloody thing never missed a beat!
Now I finaly have the 96 VFR750...and its even better than the reviews and multiple awards said it would be

...but a road legal RC213v sitting in my shed?, HELL YEAH!!

[Drew]

GP bikes are on 16.5's and the road bikes were 17's though aren't they? I could be wrong.

and Yes to the V4.

I saw the V4 Aprilia Tuono the other day. do want. But I will not buy an Aprilia

Na, road bike wears 16.5inch wheels, that Bridgestone promised to always make for the desmocidici. Each bike was meant to come with first set of replacements free. Last time I spoke to Steve Bron, a year and a half after getting his bike, he was still waiting on his tyres.

[imdying]

Na, road bike wears 16.5inch wheels, that Bridgestone promised to always make for the desmocidici. Each bike was meant to come with first set of replacements free. Last time I spoke to Steve Bron, a year and a half after getting his bike, he was still waiting on his tyres.

D16RR uses a 17" front and a 16" rear. Bridgestone and Ducati wanted to use a 16.5" rear, but the European dudes that certify tyre sizes for road use wouldn't certify a half inch size.

[Paul in NZ]

Oh for FFS... Honda have been successful because they delivered new stuff that was better than anything else on the market at a price that hit the sweet spot and people bought them by the bucket full. They were the challenger brand going up against the established players and were not weighted down by history so they could innovate like crazy. The actual layout of the thing is immaterial the fact is it went better for longer and people could afford the previously unaffordable.

Now they have a considerable history and the company is run by people that have been in the motorcycle industry probably all their lives. Their vision is framed by that history and in a sense limited by it. Producing a super sports bike based on current race winning technology is not in itself a bad idea BUT a senior manager putting on rose tinted specs and waffling on about past glories isnt a good look unless they are producing a watered down copy for the masses, much like a GB500 is a 'cafe racer' for people that can't live with a Gold Star etc.

Realistically - Who is going to buy these bikes? I'm guessing the target isn't someone who ever heard an RC30 running in anger. Factor in the recession and the fact that very often these big bang top of the line cost regardless efforts sell for significantly less than production costs and Honda might just have a problem.

Whats a top of the line race rep Ducati cost in NZ? Would enough people pay that for a Honda? Personally - I don't think they would.

Innovation is not going to be easy for the Japanese now. Their dominance is akin to where the british were in the late 50's and now we are seeing pesky Chinese bikes appearing and we are dismissing them like we used to dismiss Hondas. Then there are the crazy germans.

[nudemetalz]

Paul's got a point.
I guess that's why the Honda NSX, as good a car as it is,..never sold like it should.
It doesn't have an Italian, or British or German name.

The new sport bike that Honda will build will start, run smoothly and be 100% reliable.
It won't overheat and break things like an MV,..it won't be loud like a Ducati,..and it won't blow inlet trumpet stacks off like my Guzzi does

[onearmedbandit]

Fact is, people bought the NR750, and that wasn't even based on a world championship winning machine. Next fact is, Honda have no problem with doing something extreme and losing money on it, just to show they can. Like the NR750.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Fact is, people bought the NR750, and that wasn't even based on a world championship winning machine. Next fact is, Honda have no problem with doing something extreme and losing money on it, just to show they can. Like the NR750.

100% correct.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Oh for FFS... Honda have been successful because they delivered new stuff that was better than anything else on the market at a price that hit the sweet spot and people bought them by the bucket full. They were the challenger brand going up against the established players and were not weighted down by history so they could innovate like crazy. The actual layout of the thing is immaterial the fact is it went better for longer and people could afford the previously unaffordable.

Now they have a considerable history and the company is run by people that have been in the motorcycle industry probably all their lives. Their vision is framed by that history and in a sense limited by it. Producing a super sports bike based on current race winning technology is not in itself a bad idea BUT a senior manager putting on rose tinted specs and waffling on about past glories isnt a good look unless they are producing a watered down copy for the masses, much like a GB500 is a 'cafe racer' for people that can't live with a Gold Star etc.

Realistically - Who is going to buy these bikes? I'm guessing the target isn't someone who ever heard an RC30 running in anger. Factor in the recession and the fact that very often these big bang top of the line cost regardless efforts sell for significantly less than production costs and Honda might just have a problem.

Whats a top of the line race rep Ducati cost in NZ? Would enough people pay that for a Honda? Personally - I don't think they would.

Innovation is not going to be easy for the Japanese now. Their dominance is akin to where the british were in the late 50's and now we are seeing pesky Chinese bikes appearing and we are dismissing them like we used to dismiss Hondas. Then there are the crazy germans.

all the innovation is happening in Ze Cherman brands (KTM, BMW etc) and other Euro brands: ducati, Apriia, TRIUMPH!!! (Yay!)

Speaking of Chinese innovation, is it wrong of me to want this for 3 grand?

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/moto...-517216582.htm

[merv]

"The power of dreams"

That's why Honda build stuff like the robot http://world.honda.com/ASIMO/

Which leads to stuff like this http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/st...wer/57185858/1

How many other bike companies do this http://hondajet.honda.com/ ? BMW used to, not sure they build aircraft now.

The old man from way back taught his people to always do something different.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Fact is, people bought the NR750, and that wasn't even based on a world championship winning machine. Next fact is, Honda have no problem with doing something extreme and losing money on it, just to show they can. Like the NR750.

yep. pluss soomeone going into the shop will go "Oh yeah, well some of the technology in the NR750 has trickled down into my CRF230: they're both Hondas"

[Paul in NZ]

100% correct.

Sigh.....

People also buy limited edition all sorts and pay waaay over the odds but the real question is - did Honda make a profit on those bikes? All up I doubt it....

Factor in a different era. People thought Honda was going to make that work, how many would have bought them if they had known it was going to be dropped like the turd it was? Even more, how many would buy these bikes right now given the recession and what its done to bike sales? Worse - assume you sold a few how many sales of profitable models would that rob you of?

Anyway - I'll take my marketing hat off now... I really don't care to much what they make....

[Paul in NZ]

The old man from way back taught his people to always do something different.

Actually you need to be very careful when you say that.

There is a wonderful book about the battle between samsung and sony which highlights the issues japanese companies face when they transition from the 'founder' generation to the era of the professional manager. Its scary ....

[Paul in NZ]

yep. pluss soomeone going into the shop will go "Oh yeah, well some of the technology in the NR750 has trickled down into my CRF230: they're both Hondas"

If I was in the market for a CRF230 I'd be hoping they didn't put anything from the NR750 anywhere near it.... Who needs a complex, heavy and slow dirt bike....