Convince me...

[bogan]

That's not the point, all I'm recommending is a much better product for a cheaper price. What's wrong with that?

What is wrong with that is you are recommending a better product for yourself. Think about it from their point of view, somebody is saying they recommend a better product, but uses CLI and over-clocking etc to justify why it is better. People who don't care about that stuff think your justification is as useful to them, as bus advertising is to you. I'll say it again cos its an important point "The quality of a product is always related to its intended use, not just how you could use it"

[onearmedbandit]

That's not the point, all I'm recommending is a much better product for a cheaper price. What's wrong with that?

Chris, to make a sale sometimes you have to sell the customer what they actually want. It's as simple as that. If a client comes onto my yard and tells me they want a BMW coupe yet they have two child seats to fit into the back, I might ask if they have considered a 4dr. If they insist on the coupe because of it's styling, then I'm selling them the coupe. Otherwise they'll walk off to another yard to buy exactly what they want. You have to take 'you' out of the equation.

[SMOKEU]

What is wrong with that is you are recommending a better product for yourself. Think about it from their point of view, somebody is saying they recommend a better product, but uses CLI and over-clocking etc to justify why it is better. People who don't care about that stuff think your justification is as useful to them, as bus advertising is to you. I'll say it again cos its an important point "The quality of a product is always related to its intended use, not just how you could use it"

OK then, for the "average n00b", how is spending close to double the money on a similar performing product going to result in a better experience for that user? I'm looking for a purely technical reason why Apple gear is so much better than everything else, not just "the guy at the Apple shop said it's the best" or "my friend has one and it looks really cool". I'm not saying that all Apple products are necessarily bad (some of them are pretty good), but how can you justify the extra price to someone who doesn't even know what a web browser is? What exactly is that extra money buying you, other than a brand name?

I have also installed OSX Lion on my computer at home (VMWare ftw), and I quite enjoyed using it to be honest. I found it a nice OS to use in general, with a nice "refined" feel, but I could not find any reason to justify spending over double the money for a computer that has very similar specs, just so you know.

Chris, to make a sale sometimes you have to sell the customer what they actually want. It's as simple as that. If a client comes onto my yard and tells me they want a BMW coupe yet they have two child seats to fit into the back, I might ask if they have considered a 4dr. If they insist on the coupe because of it's styling, then I'm selling them the coupe. Otherwise they'll walk off to another yard to buy exactly what they want. You have to take 'you' out of the equation.

Fair enough.

[bogan]

I'm looking for a purely technical reason

And that's the issue.

I can understand wanting to take the brand image out of the equation when comparing devices, the whole iThing means i'mCool doesn't do it for me either. But to most users the physical look/feel of it is important, having intuitive software is also very important. Machined from aluminium extrusion (I assume they still do this) won't show up on your tech spec list, but it does make a difference in heat dissipation, durability, weight/size, feel and build quality. If they are previous apple owners then sticking with apple products is a function thing as well as a brand thing. I am the opposite, apple laptops piss me off cos the mouse buttons are set up weird. But I've also compared specs, and apple stuff is pretty up there in not just tech specs like processing power and memory size, but reliability as well, which is hard to put a price on. Personally I go with Asus gear whenever I can afford it, its about 15-25% more expensive than similar spec stuff, but in my experience more reliable and less buggy than the other brands. And as Milts showed, they make neat stuff too.

[Winston001]

Plus digital magazines.

Magazines eh nudge nudge wink wink.

Your wife gov, she likes magazines? Photography candid snaps know wot I mean?? She a goer eh?

[SMOKEU]

And that's the issue.

I can understand wanting to take the brand image out of the equation when comparing devices, the whole iThing means i'mCool doesn't do it for me either. But to most users the physical look/feel of it is important, having intuitive software is also very important. Machined from aluminium extrusion (I assume they still do this) won't show up on your tech spec list, but it does make a difference in heat dissipation, durability, weight/size, feel and build quality. If they are previous apple owners then sticking with apple products is a function thing as well as a brand thing. I am the opposite, apple laptops piss me off cos the mouse buttons are set up weird. But I've also compared specs, and apple stuff is pretty up there in not just tech specs like processing power and memory size, but reliability as well, which is hard to put a price on. Personally I go with Asus gear whenever I can afford it, its about 15-25% more expensive than similar spec stuff, but in my experience more reliable and less buggy than the other brands. And as Milts showed, they make neat stuff too.

I agree with all the above, except for the tech specs. While many of their products do have good hardware, they are often (but not always) 1 or 2 generations behind the competition. Just look at the Apple NZ website, they are still selling Mac Pros with 5 series ATI (3 year old) video cards, and these are in computers costing $4k+. One would expect for that price more modern hardware, not just for the performance, but power consumption, too. That was just one example.

Also the iPhone 4S has 512MB of RAM (correct me if I'm wrong). My sub $200 Android phone has the same amount of RAM. Why? Now I know that 512MB is plenty for the OS for most users, but the competition (at a much cheaper price sometimes) has double that amount. The 4S also has a dual core CPU rather than a quad core like the Galaxy S3 has (and yes, I know that makes fuck all difference for 95% of users). It also needs iTunes to sync with Windows (why can't it be used as a plug and play mass storage device? That would save having to buy a large capacity USB flash drive). It's also more expensive than the Galaxy S3. If you don't need the latest and greatest, then why pay for the latest and greatest when you could either get something just as good for a few hundred $ less, or buy the S3 and get a better phone?

[bogan]

I agree with all the above, except for the tech specs. While many of their products do have good hardware, they are often (but not always) 1 or 2 generations behind the competition. Just look at the Apple NZ website, they are still selling Mac Pros with 5 series ATI (3 year old) video cards, and these are in computers costing $4k+. One would expect for that price more modern hardware, not just for the performance, but power consumption, too. That was just one example.

Those seem more setup as workstation than gaming rigs, is the 5 series well suited to stream processing and other workstation tasks?

Also the iPhone 4S has 512MB of RAM (correct me if I'm wrong). My sub $200 Android phone has the same amount of RAM. Why? Now I know that 512MB is plenty for the OS for most users, but the competition (at a much cheaper price sometimes) has double that amount. The 4S also has a dual core CPU rather than a quad core like the Galaxy S3 has (and yes, I know that makes fuck all difference for 95% of users). It also needs iTunes to sync with Windows (why can't it be used as a plug and play mass storage device? That would save having to buy a large capacity USB flash drive). It's also more expensive than the Galaxy S3. If you don't need the latest and greatest, then why pay for the latest and greatest when you could either get something just as good for a few hundred $ less, or buy the S3 and get a better phone?

Try instead of comparing the spec numbers, just put a tick or cross to indicate whether it is adequate or not, then continue with the comparison; it would be a good way for you to get into the mindset of people who do choose these products.
Part of Apples marketing is that it works with other apple devices really well, so making it into a general purpose USB stick would impair that functionality.

[SMOKEU]

Those seem more setup as workstation than gaming rigs, is the 5 series well suited to stream processing and other workstation tasks?

Part of Apples marketing is that it works with other apple devices really well, so making it into a general purpose USB stick would impair that functionality.

Yes but not as well as the current series cards. Also, there is this amazing thing called "copy and paste" which I can use to snyc my Android phone with a Windows or Linux computer. It's a fascinating part of the OS that actually allows you to transfer data to and from a device without needing any third party software.

Out of interest, what is the iOS command line like? I've played around with the Android ones but I'm interested in knowing what the iOS one is like.

[mashman]

Right you droids, convince me why I should buy a Galaxy Tab 10.1 over the iPad 3.
Nows your chance to sway me & you've got some uphill work to do.

I want to know why a Galaxy Tab would be "better" than an iPad, why should I "be assimilated" & things like "you can get to root" or "it has 'faster' specs" ain't gonna cut it I'm not interested in any of that I'm only interested in user experience.

So lets have it, convince me.

So did you get it yet? I wanna read the "you shoulda got the XXXXXXX" conversation, as the "you should get the XXXXXXX" conversation is getting boring. I'm sure it'll have a completely different spin on it.

[bogan]

Yes but not as well as the current series cards. Also, there is this amazing thing called "copy and paste" which I can use to snyc my Android phone with a Windows or Linux computer. It's a fascinating part of the OS that actually allows you to transfer data to and from a device without needing any third party software.

Does 'copy and paste' do it automatically? does it skip files that are the same without a prompt? does it sync calendar and phone contacts?

One of the best apps for my android phone is sweethome, which uses a standard windows network share to store all my photos (or any other files I want) from the phone to computer completely automatically. This functionality is much more important to me than having a few more mb ram or more ghz processing; as its and end function, so its a tickable box.

[Scuba_Steve]

If it's for a lady, I'd recommend the Microsoft Surface, the Windows 8 tablet that is coming out later this month.

Why?
- ease of use
- useful things, like Microsoft Office, with it, too, making it easy to use for study, work, home
- simple to use informative and pretty live tile system
- The magnetic flip cover you can get with it is also a keyboard so you don't waste screen space with a virtual keyboard if you don't want to
- importantly for her, they come in a shit load of colours

Furthermore it looks like it is going to be sold ridiculously cheap, too, to help break it out in to the market.

Might wanna revisit my post #3

Another impressive alternative (not that you're looking for one) is the Asus Transformer Prime:

Had a play with these... Not impressed! would not waste my money there. The only other brand I was considering was Sony Xperia S but as mentioned I think the Apple is the best for purpose.

I agree with all the above, except for the tech specs. While many of their products do have good hardware, they are often (but not always) 1 or 2 generations behind the competition. Just look at the Apple NZ website, they are still selling Mac Pros with 5 series ATI (3 year old) video cards, and these are in computers costing $4k+. One would expect for that price more modern hardware, not just for the performance, but power consumption, too. That was just one example.

Also the iPhone 4S has 512MB of RAM (correct me if I'm wrong). My sub $200 Android phone has the same amount of RAM. Why? Now I know that 512MB is plenty for the OS for most users, but the competition (at a much cheaper price sometimes) has double that amount. The 4S also has a dual core CPU rather than a quad core like the Galaxy S3 has (and yes, I know that makes fuck all difference for 95% of users). It also needs iTunes to sync with Windows (why can't it be used as a plug and play mass storage device? That would save having to buy a large capacity USB flash drive). It's also more expensive than the Galaxy S3. If you don't need the latest and greatest, then why pay for the latest and greatest when you could either get something just as good for a few hundred $ less, or buy the S3 and get a better phone?

Apple quite often have "bleeding edge" (or close to it) HW when they 1st come out, but unlike other companies Apple have a set model list, only do annual upgrades & doesn't drop price throughout the year.
As for your specs example on phones, for those sort of devices it's the experience not the specs. Fact is Apple's pulling similar results with lesser specs. Your always 1st to point out how linux can manage that over Windows, but then seem to ignore the fact Apples managing it against Android.

So did you get it yet? I wanna read the "you shoulda got the XXXXXXX" conversation, as the "you should get the XXXXXXX" conversation is getting boring. I'm sure it'll have a completely different spin on it.

Na not yet. Now I'm wondering if it's worth the wait for the (assumed coming) A6 model before buying, Tho I don't expect that till March/April next year so that could be a bit too far away

[Quasievil]

I Brought a Toshiba AT100, I brought it as it did everything all the others did BUT it had Ports, SD, HDMI, USB etc so I can do alot more than you can with a Ipad.

As it happens im selling it as I need a laptop to do Adobe Illustrator stuff
if of interest to anyone $400 for tablet, two extra covers, docking stn, leather case
http://www.wheedle.co.nz/Search/ItemDetails/4363

[SMOKEU]

Does 'copy and paste' do it automatically? does it skip files that are the same without a prompt? does it sync calendar and phone contacts?

One of the best apps for my android phone is sweethome, which uses a standard windows network share to store all my photos (or any other files I want) from the phone to computer completely automatically. This functionality is much more important to me than having a few more mb ram or more ghz processing; as its and end function, so its a tickable box.

A simple Robocopy script could do that, and I'm sure one of the *nix geeks will come along soon enough and show us a bash script to do the same thing.

[bogan]

A simple Robocopy script could do that, and I'm sure one of the *nix geeks will come along soon enough and show us a bash script to do the same thing.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

[SMOKEU]

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

I forgot to mention that even Facebook can be accessed via command line. That's winning.