Govt assault on young 'uns continues

[mashman]

The return of youth pay rates

"On Tuesday, the government unveiled the new "starting-out wage", set at 80 per cent of the adult minimum wage, which is $13.50 an hour, for the first six months of work.

The $10.80 an hour minimum will apply to all 16 and 17-year-olds in their first six months of working for a new employer, along with 18 and 19-year-olds who have previously been on a benefit for six months or longer, and 16 to 19-year-old workers in some industry training."

A job is a job, but you've been alive for a shorter period than others and therefore your contribution will be less so you should get paid less. Have a slap across the face kids. Gone are the days where you can earn a living, pay your rent, pay the bills and still have some cash left over to enjoy yourself... and all because you are young. I kinda feel sorry for the slightly older generation (early twenties) who will have to compete with those who have legally lower wages. Who would the employer prefer? The cheap young option with no experience or the more expensive option with no experience. Fuckin supposed adults make me sick. What a pathetic race we're becoming... actually no, I'm going to disassociate myself from the so called adults who'll accept this as "fair" and say, what a pathetic race you and your representatives are becoming. White motherfuckers.

[Ocean1]

Fuckin supposed adults make me sick.

When you grow up you'll understand, boy.

[mashman]

When you grow up you'll understand, boy.

Coming from man, loose term, with his head so far up his own bank account, that means absolutely nothing. Praps when yer marbles start going you'll start to understand, old man.

[madandy]

I got $6 hr a an apprentice.
$14 once qualified 4 years later.
Whats wrong with kids being paid a lower wage for 6 months? Once their worth is proven they're gonna get the same as an adult...
A mans pay for a mans work still exists for those that want it but $13.50 to stand around being shown how to do the job is fair to the employer how?

Oh and how is this the fault of us white melon farmers?

[scott411]

in the business i owed we took quite few kids straight out of school, many with no qualifactions, and trained them, some took a while, but if they had a work ethic they stayed, they all started on youth rates and worked up to tradesmen rates with training though a ITO, and some into management positions as well, most of them would not have got a shot if we had to pay them the minimum wage when they were not worth it, they are all still friends as well, alot still work their,

when they changed the rules we did not take as many chances, it was not worth the risk when you had to pay them the same as a young 20's person that had shorted thier shit out a bit more, so we modified our hiring to suit,

this will help some people get a chance, i doubt any small to medium size business owner who has employed people will disagree,

[mashman]

I got $6 hr a an apprentice.
$14 once qualified 4 years later.
Whats wrong with kids being paid a lower wage for 6 months? Once their worth is proven they're gonna get the same as an adult...
A mans pay for a mans work still exists for those that want it but $13.50 to stand around being shown how to do the job is fair to the employer how?

Oh and how is this the fault of us white melon farmers?

I got paid next to nothing in my first few jobs, but I could afford to pay my rent etc... not everyone wants to stay at "home", but 20+ years later I couldn't make ends meet with what these kids are getting paid. Offering kids less money for the same work is a pathetic joke. I believe it will teach them that they're worth less than another human being solely because they are younger, irrespective of their abilities. Pay bands based on age ... wonder how long it will be til that's enforced.

[mashman]

in the business i owed we took quite few kids straight out of school, many with no qualifactions, and trained them, some took a while, but if they had a work ethic they stayed, they all started on youth rates and worked up to tradesmen rates with training though a ITO, and some into management positions as well, most of them would not have got a shot if we had to pay them the minimum wage when they were not worth it, they are all still friends as well, alot still work their,

when they changed the rules we did not take as many chances, it was not worth the risk when you had to pay them the same as a young 20's person that had shorted thier shit out a bit more, so we modified our hiring to suit,

this will help some people get a chance, i doubt any small to medium size business owner who has employed people will disagree,

What's the difference between a 16yr old and a 20yr old in regards to ability (or a 40 yr old for that matter)?

[scumdog]

Great!
ANOTHER windmill to joust at...

[Zamiam]

Whats wrong with kids being pai a lower wage for 6 months? Once their worth is proven they're gonna get the same as an adult...
A mans pay for a mans work still exists for those that want it but $13.50 to stand around being shown how to do the job is fair to the employer how?

Well said. How many 16 & 17 year olds paying rent etc. do you know mashman?

FFS you bleeding do gooders who expect people to be given things for nothing are the reason the economies of countries like ours have tanked. For the record I'm self employed and NO ONE guarantees me a minimum hourly rate. I work longer hours than my team, live with more stress including how to pay them and have to hope there will be enough left to put gas in the Harley so I can get rid of some of my stress. Oh, let's not forget, if the team members don't deliver and therefore the business doesn't make enough money to pay me THEY STILL GET PAID.

[scott411]

What's the difference between a 16yr old and a 20yr old in regards to ability (or a 40 yr old for that matter)?

a 16 year old typlically struggles to stay focussed all day because, since they are not used to an 8 hour plus work day, they tend not to take instruction that well, some are better than others and progress quicker, and they tend to talk back a bit as well, which teachers seem to have to put up with, but bosses do not,

also they have no skills in the jobs that I wantd them to do, we taught them those skills, i have yet to see someone come out of a pretrade tech cause with any of those skills either, we stopped sending kids their as it was a waist of money,

I will say that some 20 year olds are just as bad if they have not been in a job as well, and some 40 year olds would be as well, but you tend to have a work history to look back on to see that,

did you start your first job on what you earn now?

[Zamiam]

Have also hired youngsters straight out of school and to be honest those that deliver on reasonable expectations are a very small minority. In fact they are so few and far between that I made a conscious decision to hire no one under the age of 20 as generally they have at least some work ethic. I'd rather invest my time and my money in a better bet.

And yes it's illegal to discriminate on the basis of age but I, like probably all small business owners, live and survive in the real world NOT the ideal world.

[madandy]

I got paid next to nothing in my first few jobs, but I could afford to pay my rent etc... not everyone wants to stay at "home", but 20+ years later I couldn't make ends meet with what these kids are getting paid. Offering kids less money for the same work is a pathetic joke. I believe it will teach them that they're worth less than another human being solely because they are younger, irrespective of their abilities. Pay bands based on age ... wonder how long it will be til that's enforced.

Did you feel "worth less than another human being" ?
I certainly did not. I was gratefull to learn and accepted my learning and the time it took came at an expense to my employer.
All jobs pay more the longer you stick a them. Ya dont get 100k right out of school.

Im self emplyed now and hope to employ a driver soon.
I'll take on a young un witha license and no experience if they're cheaper cause they're gonna cost me money while they learn.
A 20 odd year old with some miles under thei belt will be worth more straight away.

Sure there are exceptions, and its a minimum wage not a maximum and the youth rate aint mandatory.

Many generations of workers have climbed the ranks through age and experience based pay structure...some young uns need some hardening up rather than namby pamby equal rights shit.

[mashman]

Great!
ANOTHER windmill to joust at...

heh... I wish it were that easy.

Well said. How many 16 & 17 year olds paying rent etc. do you know mashman?

FFS you bleeding do gooders who expect people to be given things for nothing are the reason the economies of countries like ours have tanked. For the record I'm self employed and NO ONE guarantees me a minimum hourly rate. I work longer hours than my team, live with more stress including how to pay them and have to hope there will be enough left to put gas in the Harley so I can get rid of some of my stress. Oh, let's not forget, if the team members don't deliver and therefore the business doesn't make enough money to pay me THEY STILL GET PAID.

I don't know. Probably a fuckload less these days than back in my day.

You make my heart bleed... what better reason to pay someone less because they are young, irrespective of ability and capability. Do you know your employees by number or by name?

a 16 year old typlically struggles to stay focussed all day because, since they are not used to an 8 hour plus work day, they tend not to take instruction that well, some are better than others and progress quicker, and they tend to talk back a bit as well, which teachers seem to have to put up with, but bosses do not,

also they have no skills in the jobs that I wantd them to do, we taught them those skills, i have yet to see someone come out of a pretrade tech cause with any of those skills either, we stopped sending kids their as it was a waist of money,

I will say that some 20 year olds are just as bad if they have not been in a job as well, and some 40 year olds would be as well, but you tend to have a work history to look back on to see that,

did you start your first job on what you earn now?

Were you like that at 16? I certainly wasn't. My wife wasn't. Pretty much anyone I knew wasn't... but I can damn well see why some can't be arsed if they're going to be paid less than someone solely based on age. Perhaps treating them like human beings instead of cheeky young fuckers is part of the problem with youth these days. If we're going to treat them like kids, it's hardly surprising that they'll act that way. I don't buy age being an excuse for going from no knowledge to being "skilled", let alone being legislated against.

I started on feck all because I didn't care how much I was paid. People took advantage of that and if I had cared I would have left those jobs, but it paid the bills etc... and I'd venture that plenty of 16yr olds (as well as 20 and 40yr olds) are exactly the same and to that end I see this vunder policy as taking advantage. Age is an excuse, granted there's some merit in youth being uninterested ad displaying the traits you describe, but by no means is it all of them.

Have also hired youngsters straight out of school and to be honest those that deliver on reasonable expectations are a very small minority. In fact they are so few and far between that I made a conscious decision to hire no one under the age of 20 as generally they have at least some work ethic. I'd rather invest my time and my money in a better bet.

And yes it's illegal to discriminate on the basis of age but I, like probably all small business owners, live and survive in the real world NOT the ideal world.

But you'll be able to hire them cheaper soon

Tis disappointing to see people accepting that the real world is the best we can do.

[Woodman]

Have also hired youngsters straight out of school and to be honest those that deliver on reasonable expectations are a very small minority. In fact they are so few and far between that I made a conscious decision to hire no one under the age of 20 as generally they have at least some work ethic. I'd rather invest my time and my money in a better bet.

And yes it's illegal to discriminate on the basis of age but I, like probably all small business owners, live and survive in the real world NOT the ideal world.

Well said, and my policy is the same except I go for older again.Been bitten too many times. Any slight headache/sniffle and they don't come to work, unwillingness to do the shit jobs because its demeaning, drug problems, relationship problems, car problems, the constant texting, the badgering for time off, fuck me its just hard work managing the younguns on a daily basis. Got better things to do.

[scott411]

Were you like that at 16? I certainly wasn't. My wife wasn't. Pretty much anyone I knew wasn't... but I can damn well see why some can't be arsed if they're going to be paid less than someone solely based on age. Perhaps treating them like human beings instead of cheeky young fuckers is part of the problem with youth these days. If we're going to treat them like kids, it's hardly surprising that they'll act that way. I don't buy age being an excuse for going from no knowledge to being "skilled", let alone being legislated against.

me, i started on youth rates, $4.10 an hour if i remember correctly in 1995, at New World Papakura, i think if got a pay rise about 2 months in, as i turned up all the time, did what i was told and used my head when needed, which was not the norm with every kid they employed, i have had a few jobs since then and are pretty sure every employer would take me back, i don't think any of them exploited me, but i have seen some poeple in most jobs that were not worth the money they were getting paid, not matter how low, and most of them did not stay long,


I would say at 16 i still was not worth what i am worth an hour now, i did not have the skills i picked up over the last 14 years of full time work,
how many 16 year olds have you employed? and did all of them meet your expectations straight away?