What makes an insult?

[PrincessBandit]

DUBAI: The Asian Football Confederation apologised on Monday for racist remarks it made about the United Arab Emirates national team, referring to them as "sand monkeys", a statement on the AFC website said.

The "AFC apologises for an editorial mistake in which the UAE National Team was inadvertently referred to by an inaccurate nickname on the AFC's official website".

It said the comment was due to an "error, which was mainly because of referral to a popular web-based encyclopaedia" and that it "was corrected immediately after it was noticed".


This got me thinking. What actually makes an insult? Is it just in the eye (or ear) of the beholder? As I've gotten older lots of words that I shied away from when younger have really just become words, without the shock value they held when I was young and sweet ()

When I heard the term I wondered why was "sand monkey" so bad? Would it have been an insult if they'd been called "sand tigers"? Do some animals just rank way down the cool-o-meter compared to others?

Maybe the human race needs to get over itself a little, laugh at itself a little more and maybe people could then concentrate on more important issues facing us rather than "I've got hurt feelings" (as printed on my wee Flight of the Conchords button).

[Maha]

They are not sand monkey's..he was wrong to use that term...daggy arse wog bottoms would have been better.

[bogan]

Maybe it was the whole monkey-evolution thing that annoyed them. If you're talking in an official capacity, best stick to the PC terms these days. People are way too easily offended, put Paul Henry on the 6pm news, he'll sort em out

[SMOKEU]

I call them snackbars.

[Jantar]

An insult can be either in its intent, or in way it is perceived by the person reffered to. However unless the intent of the user is clear, then they should be given the benefit of the doubt.

A late uncle of mine was an expert in the art of insult. I once read a letter he sent to rather prominent female politician. I started laughing from the moment I read it, yet everything in it was couched in PC terms and glowing references. No single item in that letter could be said to be insulting, yet the letter in its entirety accused her of running a whorehouse, of screwing the public of new Zealand, of running roughshod over peoples' rights etc, while she was no more than a failed school teacher.

Personally, I feel insulted whenever I am referred to as a pakeha. I know that the person using the term may not be intending to use it as an insult, but that is the way I perceive it.

[wysper]

An insult can be either in its intent, or in way it is perceived by the person reffered to. However unless the intent of the user is clear, then they should be given the benefit of the doubt.



Personally, I feel insulted whenever I am referred to as a pakeha. I know that the person using the term may not be intending to use it as an insult, but that is the way I perceive it.

On the first bit, and who says it to you. If a good mate calls you a fucknut, it is pretty much ok, but if it is someone you don't like, you react to being a fucknut very differently (usually)

Second bit, bang on, pakeha doesn't bother me too much but it can be said in a very offensive way, but so can almost anything. So that makes it hard when you are speaking to someone as you don't know what their sore points are and what term that doesn't bother you at all sends them off the chart. I don't take offence at too much, I am more likely to take offence at what I percieve to be the tone rather than what is actually said. As a good mate often says to me, 'it is not what you say, but how you say it'.

Bit of a minefield really, always has been, always will be.

[scissorhands]

Apathy[apatheia] was considered a virtue

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apatheia

Apatheia (Greek: ἀπάθεια; from a- "without" and pathos "suffering" or "passion") in Stoic philosophy refers to a state of mind where one is not disturbed by the passions. It is best translated by the word equanimity rather than indifference. The word apatheia has a quite different meaning to the modern English apathy which has a negative connotation. According to the Stoics, apatheia was the quality that characterized the sage.

Whereas Aristotle had claimed that virtue was to be found in the golden mean between excess and deficiency of emotion (metriopatheia), the Stoics sought freedom from all passions (apatheia). It meant eradicating the tendency to react emotionally or egotistically to external events - the things we cannot control. For the Stoics, it was the optimum rational response to the world, for we cannot control things that are caused by the will of others or by Nature, we can only control our own will. This did not mean a loss of feeling, or total disengagement from the world. The Stoic who performs correct (virtuous) judgments and actions as part of the world-order experiences contentment (eudaimonia) and good feelings (eupatheia).

Pain is slight if opinion has added nothing to it; ... in thinking it slight, you will make it slight. Everything depends on opinion; ambition, luxury, greed, hark back to opinion. It is according to opinion that we suffer. ... So let us also win the way to victory in all our struggles, - for the reward is ... virtue, steadfastness of soul, and a peace that is won for all time.
—Seneca, Wikisource-logo.svg Epistles, lxxviii. 13-16..................

[Banditbandit]

Personally, I feel insulted whenever I am referred to as a pakeha. I know that the person using the term may not be intending to use it as an insult, but that is the way I perceive it.

Interesting. Why? Can you expand on that? What goes through my mind is; Is it an insult to call us Māori?

Ngā mihi.

[caspernz]

Two sides to insult and offence being taken in my view.

If someone is trying really hard to insult, then of course offence will be taken.

If someone is trying to make a point in a forthright manner, then being offended seems to be a choice. Some need only the slightest provocation to CHOOSE to be offended.

Cultural differences and language barriers make it easy for folks to make the wrong choice I'll admit.

Nothing to do with race/religion/sporting preferences...

[george formby]

Two sides to insult and offence being taken in my view.

If someone is trying really hard to insult, then of course offence will be taken.

If someone is trying to make a point in a forthright manner, then being offended seems to be a choice. Some need only the slightest provocation to CHOOSE to be offended.

Cultural differences and language barriers make it easy for folks to make the wrong choice I'll admit.

Nothing to do with race/religion/sporting preferences...

T'is true, just use the word "snigger" in a sentence on an American forum. Oh they get angry on it!!! The correct term in the New World is "snicker". They get angry on it when you describe "snicker" as a "sticky, nutty, chocolate bar" too. Just Can't win.

[Jantar]

Interesting. Why? Can you expand on that? What goes through my mind is; Is it an insult to call us Māori?

Ngā mihi.

Second part first. I understand that Maori is a word in the Maori language, and I believe that is what you would prefer to be labelled. If there is another word you would prefer then let us know so it can be used. Personally I would prefer to refer to you as a New Zealander, but you may not appreciate that, and I'm sure you would be insulted if I used certain other european words to describe you.

It is the same for me and the word pakeha. Pakeha is not a word that is from the english language, and there are so many definitions bandied about from foreigner to white flea that I can never be sure what the intended usage is. However I am a New Zealander. That is where I was born and where my parents, grand-parents, great grand-parents etc. were born. Place has great meaning to me, race doesn't.

[scott411]

Second part first. I understand that Maori is a word in the Maori language, and I believe that is what you would prefer to be labelled. If there is another word you would prefer then let us know so it can be used. Personally I would prefer to refer to you a a New Zealander, but you may not appreciate that, and I'm sure you would be insulted if I used certain other european words to describe you.

It is the same for me and the word pakeha. Pakeha is not a word that is from the english language, and there are so many definitions bandied about from foreigner to white flea that I can never be sure what the intended usage is. However I am a New Zealander. That is where I was born and where my parents, grand-parents, great grand-parents etc. were born. Place has great meaning to me, race doesn't.

well said, and i agree 100% to me pakaha means white, i prefer to be called a New Zealander, as thats where i am from, i dislike being called european as well, i am not from europe, i from New Zealand

Interesting. Why? Can you expand on that? What goes through my mind is; Is it an insult to call us Māori?

not at all, i would never tell someone what they should call themselves, if you are happy with Maori then thats cool by me,




I would not tell you what you to be called, if

[ellipsis]

...recently I said rather loudly in a room full of people at an opening of an exhibition,of which about half were of different ethnicity to the other half...'I have to get out of here, there's too many bloody *******'.
Those I were referring to were almost family and they gave me stick back...the ones most offended were the PC pakeha's, and I couldn't help but think that they were really trying to mask their own bigotry...it's a funny old world...

...a good old mate of darker skin than I, used to say...'call me whatever you like, just don't call me late for dinner'...

[oneofsix]

Second part first. I understand that Maori is a word in the Maori language, and I believe that is what you would prefer to be labelled. If there is another word you would prefer then let us know so it can be used. Personally I would prefer to refer to you a a New Zealander, but you may not appreciate that, and I'm sure you would be insulted if I used certain other european words to describe you.

It is the same for me and the word pakeha. Pakeha is not a word that is from the english language, and there are so many definitions bandied about from foreigner to white flea that I can never be sure what the intended usage is. However I am a New Zealander. That is where I was born and where my parents, grand-parents, great grand-parents etc. were born. Place has great meaning to me, race doesn't.

Neat reply.

Now long times ago I had some Reed publishing English - Maori dictionary things that said the original meaning for the word Maori was more along the lines of common or normal, back before the Maori had a common word for the race and lived as a more tribal nation concept.
Vulgar originally meant common or normal as well and is now more an insult .
Comparing Maori to Vulgar then Maori must be an insult yeah?


Although I know lots of people that would now be proud to be called vulgar.

Words change their meaning as they evolve. Maori now means a person with pre-European ancestors, Pakeha tends to mean those NZ born and breed with European (mainly UK) ancestors, so where do the multiple NZ generation Asians fit in?

[Banditbandit]

Second part first. I understand that Maori is a word in the Maori language, and I believe that is what you would prefer to be labelled. If there is another word you would prefer then let us know so it can be used. Personally I would prefer to refer to you as a New Zealander, but you may not appreciate that, and I'm sure you would be insulted if I used certain other european words to describe you.

It is the same for me and the word pakeha. Pakeha is not a word that is from the english language, and there are so many definitions bandied about from foreigner to white flea that I can never be sure what the intended usage is. However I am a New Zealander. That is where I was born and where my parents, grand-parents, great grand-parents etc. were born. Place has great meaning to me, race doesn't.

Thank you. I too use "New Zealander" ... and I agree with you - we are a mixed, mongrel breed and proud of it! However, if you want to talk about Māori and "the other group" what would you use for "the other group"?

And whatever "Pākehā" might have meant (I am familiar with most of the supposed meanings) it's just the flip side of Māori in today's language ... (see below)

Neat reply.

Now long times ago I had some Reed publishing English - Maori dictionary things that said the original meaning for the word Maori was more along the lines of common or normal, back before the Maori had a common word for the race and lived as a more tribal nation concept.
Vulgar originally meant common or normal as well and is now more an insult .
Comparing Maori to Vulgar then Maori must be an insult yeah?


Although I know lots of people that would now be proud to be called vulgar.

Words change their meaning as they evolve. Maori now means a person with pre-European ancestors, Pakeha tends to mean those NZ born and breed with European (mainly UK) ancestors, so where do the multiple NZ generation Asians fit in?

Yes - Words change their meaning ... not everyone recognises that ...no matter what meaning Pākehā may or may not have had in the past it is now just the other side of Māori - words for two groups in GodZone - Māori and Pākehā ...