Teachers and the MinEd

[Akzle]

Pass rates are not the only way to achieve good results...

sounds like making another government type job.... and we all know how well they do...

((i see no practical application for you theory. while i agree that if people aren't worth sh*t they shouldn't be paid sh*t. (whoever said "hunger has been man's biggest motivator since the dawn of time"...) and i am all for smart people to enthuse young people about learning stuff, i don't like the way state schooling is done. and i don't think state policy will improve it, and i don't think penalising teachers by some punitive system in some crackhead attempt to balance the f*ing budget will be effective, either in improving the schooling of children, or the quality of the teachers, or the actual f*ing budget.))

education has nothing to do with schooling.

[bogan]

Teacher have no bottom line in an accounting ledger, how else do you think they go about getting paid what they are worth?

Engineers can say, this is the work I did, and this is how much income it generated. Give me 1/3 of that.

Teachers on the other hand, would likely all be millionaires if they were paid a 1/3rd of the income their work was responsible. Problem is there is too many degrees of separation between them and the bottom line.

Cost cutting the standard of education in the country is like selling the house to pay for the lawns to be mowed. This sort of shit is why elected officials are only as smart as the dumb fucks doing the electing.

[SVboy]

With the way kids/teens behave these days I don't blame teachers for wanting more money. They suffer almost endless abuse from unruly students and there is very little, if anything, that they can do about it. The government is so fucking PC that they allow these hooligans to run rampant and spoil the right for every other student to get a good education.

This is possibly been the best most accurate post you have ever made, well done, carry on.

[Akzle]

...elected officials are only as smart as the dumb fucks doing the electing.

have i mentioned that i don't/never have/never will (until dotcom runs for PM) vote?

there IS a way to work out an "educator's" worth, but not all educators are teachers, and not all teachers are worth sh*t.

ne'er mind sheep.
US election's coming up. hoo-rah! and there was a cat stuck up a tree... much better news ehh...

[SVboy]

While the MinEd need to get their act together regarding getting teacher pay sorted, the bleating of teachers that they are so hard done by doesn't always ring true.

And when we (the tax payers) consider how much money education costs us, it stuns me that there is not a whole load more accountability asked of the teaching profession

From the Min of Ed website

Between March 2000 and 2012, overall average teacher pay (salary plus allowances) in state and state integrated schools increased as follows.
•Secondary teachers’ average pay increased 54.8%, from $47,764 to $73,955.
•Primary teachers’ average pay increased 64.5% from $42,358 to $69,660.
•Area school teachers’ average pay increased 57.8% from $45,936 to $72,470.
•Overall, teachers’ average pay increased 60.6% from $44,542 to $71,526.

Far as I can tell there are a little under 50,000 teachers in NZ which means that it cost us about $3,500,000,000 ($3.5 billion for those that don't like to count zeros) a year in pay.

Add to that maintenance of building and a whole heap of teaching resources, I can see why school closures and amalgamations would be on the agenda for saving some cash in these hard times

Yes, in a time where NZ has to strive to upskill its future generations like never before in order help the country move forward, lets blame the whining teachers and gut the infrastructure. That will work. Sounds like you have detailed first hand experience in the education sector.....not!

[Oblivion]

Being a teacher.

10% money
10% Kids
80% passion.

No-one realizes how much effort that most of these people put in behind the scenes just to keep up with the workload. 3 nights a week marking coursework, learning each students behavior patterns and quirks ( <- Most teachers are brilliant at this ) And now they are trying to get a pay rise for the extra effort that they put in. And they're having to fight so hard just to get a little recognition.

We were having a debate with the teacher in my stats class last year about the whole pay rise thing. He isn't involved with the lobbying, but, he said that if you're in teaching for the money, then you're in the wrong profession. Teaching is about the passion of helping kids succeed even when they doubt their own and ability. And pride watching back 20 years from now looking at someone you used to teach and thinking I'm glad that I helped that kid get to where he is today. Or even, back then, he doubted himself. But look where he is now.

Its a well known fact that teachers are massively underpaid for the work they do. Going through the NCEA bullshit, I had teachers that were willing to come in on the weekends for around 9 hours each day, to make sure as many of us passed as possible. They didn't get paid for that. Its just solid dedication.

Give the people a raise. Alot of teachers deserve it.

[Akzle]

Yes, in a time where NZ has to strive to upskill its future generations like never before in order help the country move forward, lets blame the whining teachers and gut SELL the infrastructure. That will work.

fixed that for ya. it's a winning strategy.

[bogan]

Teaching is about the passion of helping kids succeed even when they doubt their own and ability. And pride watching back 20 years from now looking at someone you used to teach and thinking I'm glad that I helped that kid get to where he is today. Or even, back then, he doubted himself. But look where he is now.

In my 7th form we had a teacher who saved our collective asses from failing chemistry. He came in about 2/3rd the way through the year after we had been stuck with relievers. He ended up teaching us the whole years curriculum in that time, we ended up taking him out for a thank-you dinner at the end of it. One of my classmates even became a chem teacher; and he's still interested in how we're doing.

Getting paid properly for that sort of effort is not too much to ask I think.

[SVboy]

fixed that for ya. it's a winning strategy.

Judging by the quality of reasoning and skilled punctuation and spelling in your posts I gather your educational record is questionable. Best not to blame the teachers for your failings as a student- you cant polish a turd.

[mashman]

bwaaaa ha ha ha haaaa. Wasn't the Rt Honourable Mr Banks complaining relatively recently ago that there were too many teachers coming out of Uni?

I'd hate to be a teacher. Half of the kids are doing well, the other half not so... is it the Teacher's fault, the kid's fault, the way the kids are being taught, exam "fright", the school's fault, the parent's fault, the curriculum's fault or my fault. How do you pay the teacher on performance when there is no way to measure where the "fault" lies? As for burnout, praps it's time for 2 or 3, maybe 4 teachers to be in a classroom. Doh, forgot... it costs too much money . They're worth every cent, well most of them, probably most of them, hopefully most of them

[oldrider]

[QUOTE=nonie;1130416833]What this post fails to take into account is that during the twelve years referred to a huge number of younger teachers on the lower pay scale left the profession.The teachers that remained took up to 8 years to work their way to the top of the pay scale . Obviously, then, with the large number of experienced teachers in front of classes, who take on extra responsibilities to gain meagre management allowances, the average pay has increased.
QUOTE]

It's not the time invested that counts, it's the quality of the outcome!

If they are all poor teachers that simply cling in there on the time scale, the result will be similar to what we have today, young teachers leaving the profession!

Teachers need to be on performance pay scales rather than time in the job "regardless of performance"!

Most kids are not stupid, why should they be suppressed by stupid teachers who have no accountability at all for their stupidity and /or incompetence!

The current system supports the lowest common denominator and that is the standard that the pupils suffer from ultimately. Mediocrety!

[Banditbandit]

Pass rates are not the only way to achieve good results. One measure of success would be to assess the pupils at the end of each year against the national standards.

Teachers currently assess against National Standards every month of so ...

[Banditbandit]

•Secondary teachers’ average pay increased 54.8%, from $47,764 to $73,955. - That's an average of 4.5% per year ... (I can't do the compound interest calculations ... so it will be actually less than that ..

•Primary teachers’ average pay increased 64.5% from $42,358 to $69,660. That's an increase of $2,277 per year or $43 a week or $1.09 per hour.

•Area school teachers’ average pay increased 57.8% from $45,936 to $72,470. An increase of $2,211 per year, $42.52 per week or $1.06 per hour ...

•Overall, teachers’ average pay increased 60.6% from $44,542 to $71,526. $2,248.67 per year - $43.24 per week or $1.08 per hour ... and that figure is likely to include principals and other senior staff ...


The increases look huge - until you realise they are given over 12 year period ... I wonder what sort of increases our politicians, who are whinging about this, recieved over the same period ...? Might just go and look ..

[Oscar]

My wife is a teacher with 25 years experience and she's leaving for a lower paid job. She's had enough of the abuse and the PC nonsense, so she's getting out.

[SVboy]

[QUOTE=oldrider;1130417076]

What this post fails to take into account is that during the twelve years referred to a huge number of younger teachers on the lower pay scale left the profession.The teachers that remained took up to 8 years to work their way to the top of the pay scale . Obviously, then, with the large number of experienced teachers in front of classes, who take on extra responsibilities to gain meagre management allowances, the average pay has increased.
QUOTE]

It's not the time invested that counts, it's the quality of the outcome!

If they are all poor teachers that simply cling in there on the time scale, the result will be similar to what we have today, young teachers leaving the profession! So what are you saying? That all teachers are poor? Grow a brain!

Teachers need to be on performance pay scales rather than time in the job "regardless of performance"! Based on what criteria?

Most kids are not stupid, why should they be suppressed by stupid teachers who have no accountability at all for their stupidity and /or incompetence! How would you know? Are you currently a teacher? Have you EVER been a primary or secondary teacher?

The current system supports the lowest common denominator and that is the standard that the pupils suffer from ultimately. Mediocrety!

A sad rightist attack on teachers while trying to promote an unworkable and outdated political votecatcher. No prizes for guessing which way you vote.