Another two-year-old toddler beaten to death

[oneofsix]

here's the problem. everyone's waiting to be led by the government.

well, it's worked so far innit?

everyone??? but that would include you and please don't speak for me.

[Banditbandit]

Just a thought since your hell bent on the sins of the father shite,head down to your local courthouse on any given day and listen to "why are you appearing before me on your 18th drink driving conviction" the regular answer being "my father was an alcoholic".To say someone thats been abused is likely to be an abuser is howd you work that out?cause every shithead facing conviction for such a thing says to the army of otherwise unemployable social workers "my father did it to me",you accept that...

Mate - I have sat in the court rooms of this country for so fucking long .. adn I am sick of the bukllshit - from both the offenders and the lawyers - prosecuting and defence .. all lawyers ..

I've heard it all .. and I am not caught uop in the bullshit the offenders put out there ... Shoot the fuckers ... the sooner the better ...

But unfortunately shooting the fuckers only stops that person committing crimes - to stop crimes occuring we need other measures ... Shooting the fuckers is an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff answer - it works for the immediate problem but does not solve much long term ...

[Banditbandit]

Dunno, its outside my knowledge. But Paula Bennett wouldn't be proposing it (and getting some stick) if it wasn't a new idea.

Yeah .. Naa bro .. Paula Bennett never had an original idea ... she's just pushing this bullshit because it sounds good .. but it has not worked in practice ...

[Banditbandit]

Until people who commit this crime against innocent children get life that means life nothing will change.

That's crap man .. The US has life sentences (and longer) and has one of the highest crime rates in the world .. the US has a death penalty for murder - that does not stop murders .. adn a high rate of them at that ...

Yes - it might stop the person sentenced to death from committing another murder - but there are plenty more people out there committing murders ..

Detterents only stop good people ... they don't stop crims.

[Paul in NZ]

Oh dear god....

The mother of a two-year-old allegedly murdered by her former partner has told a court she didn't get the toddler medical attention for four days, despite him having a broken arm.

Josephine Lawrence told the High Court at Auckland today she knew her son's arm was broken but was "wasted'' and didn't want the authorities to take her son away.

Ms Lawrence's former partner Joel Loffley is alleged to have murdered her son James Joseph Ruhe Lawrence - known as JJ - while he looked after him at their family home in the Auckland suburb of Orakei in November last year.

Loffley has denied the charge.

Under cross-examination from Loffley's lawyer Roger Chambers, Ms Lawrence told the court Loffley had suggested calling an ambulance when they found JJ with a broken arm.

"I said no, because I was too wasted and didn't want them to be taken off me at hospital.''

She said she took JJ to her local clinic when it reopened four days later.

Ms Lawrence also told the court her son was subjected to cannabis smoke through much of his life.

"Joel used to give him spots ... I probably would have blown smoke in his face but that's about it.''

She also confirmed she had smoked methamphetamine and taken ecstasy but said the drugs had come from Loffley.

Poor little bugger never stood a chance.... How many more like him are out there you have to wonder?? THIS is why pensioners get beaten up in home invasions....

sigh...

[oneofsix]

well now she has lost him for ever. But does show what happens when you get too punitive, she was afraid to involve authorities, even the ambos, in case big bad CYFS stepped in so instead of getting help she gets a trial. Don't feel sorry for her so much as the poor little kid that had to suffer and die because of this.

[GTRMAN]

well now she has lost him for ever. But does show what happens when you get too punitive, she was afraid to involve authorities, even the ambos, in case big bad CYFS stepped in so instead of getting help she gets a trial. Don't feel sorry for her so much as the poor little kid that had to suffer and die because of this.

If she was afraid that someone would take her child away, wouldn't that lead you to think maybe she knew there were problems with her parenting? She could have chosen to do something.... can someone explain how leaving a child with a broken arm because you are afraid of having the child taken away can in any way be considered a rational thought?

[Drew]

well now she has lost him for ever. But does show what happens when you get too punitive, she was afraid to involve authorities, even the ambos, in case big bad CYFS stepped in so instead of getting help she gets a trial. Don't feel sorry for her so much as the poor little kid that had to suffer and die because of this.

Oh fuck off! Go easy on people, so they will admit their faults?

The people I want to share society with, (sorry Akzel, you can live next door and barter food with us though, have you considered declaring your land a republic?), are the ones who even though they're gonna have to pay for it, will admit their fuck ups. I make mistakes, I face them and any accusers head high, and move on. It's called life.

[Paul in NZ]

If she was afraid that someone would take her child away, wouldn't that lead you to think maybe she knew there were problems with her parenting? She could have chosen to do something.... can someone explain how leaving a child with a broken arm because you are afraid of having the child taken away can in any way be considered a rational thought?

Chances are she had elements of this in her own upbringing making this family a huge great snowball of pain and disaster rolling down the slopes of society.... The mess just getting bigger and more dangerous as time goes by....

[Banditbandit]

In my experience the best defence that we have against the crims is that the crims are pretty fucking DUMB. And I mean truly DUMB.

The above is a great example of just how DUMB.

[oneofsix]

If she was afraid that someone would take her child away, wouldn't that lead you to think maybe she knew there were problems with her parenting? She could have chosen to do something.... can someone explain how leaving a child with a broken arm because you are afraid of having the child taken away can in any way be considered a rational thought?

Yes but she still wanted to keep the kid. Like I said no sympathy for her. Understand I do, fucked up she is. Never said she was rational but then again what we humans call love is never thought of as rational and I bet she would have said she loved the kid

Sooo when you try to use logical rational methods of dealing with these people you will fail because they aren't rational but instead have carzy emotional ties. Why the F would you stay with a guy that you are afraid will bet you if you take the kid to the bank with you? Got to be irrational, emotional crazy shit.

[GTRMAN]

Yes but she still wanted to keep the kid. Like I said no sympathy for her. Understand I do, fucked up she is. Never said she was rational but then again what we humans call love is never thought of as rational and I bet she would have said she loved the kid

Sooo when you try to use logical rational methods of dealing with these people you will fail because they aren't rational but instead have carzy emotional ties. Why the F would you stay with a guy that you are afraid will bet you if you take the kid to the bank with you? Got to be irrational, emotional crazy shit.

Big difference between 'want' and 'should' Who was looking out for the child?

[Drew]

Big difference between 'want' and 'should' Who was looking out for the child?

Seriously though, your avatar is a shot from the movie 'Krull' aye?

I'm not obsessive compulsive, shit just bugs me sometimes.

[oneofsix]

Big difference between 'want' and 'should' Who was looking out for the child?

true. If she had taken him to the hospital then what? What happened when she took him to the medical centre 4 days later? That should have been an even bigger risk than taking him to the hospital immediately except of course she was no longer wasted but a 4 day old break in a small kid should have had alarm bells ringing loudly. I need medical person to refute that assumption I guess.

[Drew]

true. If she had taken him to the hospital then what? What happened when she took him to the medical centre 4 days later? That should have been an even bigger risk than taking him to the hospital immediately except of course she was no longer wasted but a 4 day old break in a small kid should have had alarm bells ringing loudly. I need medical person to refute that assumption I guess.

It's not uncommon for parents to genuinely not realise children have broken arms. The pain is quite bareable if there is no displacement in the bones, and even when there is, it aint that bad. Four days after the fact probably doesn't raise an eyebrow, provided the mother or father that brings the kid in, doesn't look strung out to fuck, and incapable of a coherant story.

So, we shant go blaming the health proffessionals, because a lot of them are fuckin near ready to go on a killing spree they're so frustrated with the system that ties their hands.