Another two-year-old toddler beaten to death

[Ocean1]

That is the bit I refuse to accept as common sense. The market is a sham. Yes it's the real world, but it's still an absolute sham and society and its structure keep it that way because of our ignorance of what it is and our preconceptions of what others are worth.

The only ignorance around here is that of asserting that anyone is too good to be exposed to the real value of their work. And whatever they're worth as a person the work they do does have real value, however you want to pay for it.

[mashman]

The only ignorance around here is that of asserting that anyone is too good to be exposed to the real value of their work. And whatever they're worth as a person the work they do does have real value, however you want to pay for it.

Ya kinda lost me there. Me needs small words with meaning.

[RDJ]

Ya kinda lost me there. Me needs small words with meaning.

I shall try: I work for a company that pays me what they think my work is worth to them - what our customers will pay, not what I think my work is worth. If I don't think they're paying me enough, I can go elsewhere to look for more money. Feeling that I "deserve it" (deserve more) is not going to persuade the company to pay me more.

As they say, "he who wishes to rob Peter to pay Paul, will always have the support of Paul".

[_Shrek_]

They are a tiny portion of the country and as mentioned many many many times before and even admitted by the govt, there aren't enough jobs to go around, let alone well paid ones. To the extent where they're legislating for lower wages for "kids" and trying to force them into work if they don't have a good enough excuse not to. Oh the joys of this society.

Ahhhh, the days of free education, affordable accommodation, affordable drink and food, plenty of "well paid" jobs etc... nothing like equating then to now. The only thing that has changed is that the cost of living v's a living wage has changed in favour of the cost of living. There will always be drinking problems (not restricted to "them), gambling problems (stock market with billions of spare change lost) etc...

The PC brigade? haven't heard that one in a while, although it does seem to go hand in hand with someone bleating about the good old days. Do you refuse to accept that life is more difficult these days? Granted "it's" still doable and people can still achieve, but the well paid jobs just aren't there for everyone to do so.

Then hyperinflation ensues and we carry on in a vicious circle until you are the one that's being dragged out the back.

i've said nothing about the good old days & it's no tougher now than it was then, you can manage if you have to, no it's not easy but it is do-able, I've never owned a home or any other property but we've had a fairly good life with ups & downs, in fact I think we're better off now as we only have one kid left at home we own our bikes & can move when ever we want

& the tiny portion you say is only the tip, you have govt people ripping the system, big companys not paying tax, single mums/dads on the DPB & living with a partner etc & who cops it the little man/woman who goes out every day to work & pays his/her tax on a average to low income

there are still good jobs around if you're willing to move, they're importing workers for CHCH rebuild (well paid in alot of areas), orchard work (average) all over the sth Is, so the work is here all you have to do is get off your backside & find it, it may not be the one you want to be in for the next 20years etc... but it is a start... & it does give you self worth to be working, so you can break the vicious circle if you have the balls to try

[Akzle]

have you heard of "battered woman syndrome"

& the pc brgade jumps in & says we need more money for these poor folk blah blah blah,

have you heard of "grow a fucking spine" synodrome. it usually affects people growing up. if, for some reason, one fails to grow a spine, who's fault is that? couldn't possibly be the system that they were "educated" by.

poor folk need money. well. in your society, yes. but in your society, you also need poor folk. if everyone was rich, balancing the books would be a f@cking nightmare, least of all a'cos none of them would be paying tax. ><

there are those who choose not to work. if you have a vagina, it's real easy. (and pays well, too)

the current "unemployment benefit" is 186$ a week. i challenge any of you to draw up a budget that accommodates that income.
so it's no wonder people scam the system. it's no wonder people want to pinch your TV to supplement that income.
if you don't want people "dependent on the system" - don't make them dependent on it.
and POOF, there goes half the money you spend on cops to chow doughnuts //er chase their ass // err, find and persecute //err, prosecute these crims.

So the real trick is to arm yourself with as valuable a set of skills as you can manage.


Or go hungry.

my skillset includes trapping, hunting, fishing and gardening. the likelihood of me gowing hungry is slim.
valuable? yes.
monetarily so? no.
i can also chase cows pretty good... valuable.. not really. pays? yah...

...should they decide to kill the farmers and eat the produce.

it's okay. we've got guns. lots of guns.

And so everyone in the new system wants a RSV like yours, a BMW car, a swimming pool in the back yard.etc etc....how?

a) you think everyone would?? (i sre as shit don't)
b) it would happen, much as mashy says.

Build them. You need manpower and resources. There will have to be a class test for those who want an RSV though.

yes. anyone who scores more than 30% class isn't allowed one!

[_Shrek_]

have you heard of "grow a fucking spine" synodrome. it usually affects people growing up. if, for some reason, one fails to grow a spine, who's fault is that? couldn't possibly be the system that they were "educated" by.

poor folk need money. well. in your society, yes. but in your society, you also need poor folk. if everyone was rich, balancing the books would be a f@cking nightmare, least of all a'cos none of them would be paying tax. ><

there are those who choose not to work. if you have a vagina, it's real easy. (and pays well, too)

the current "unemployment benefit" is 186$ a week. i challenge any of you to draw up a budget that accommodates that income.
so it's no wonder people scam the system. it's no wonder people want to pinch your TV to supplement that income.
if you don't want people "dependent on the system" - don't make them dependent on it.
and POOF, there goes half the money you spend on cops to chow doughnuts //er chase their ass // err, find and persecute //err, prosecute these crims.

grow a back bone like yours you mean great tui add, it's because of sad arses like who winge & bitch because they pay you what you're actualy worth, instead of getting out there & doing some thing about it, you would sooner knock every one who has, get a life sonny & start to live

[Banditbandit]

Oh Oh Oh ... Where to start ...

If some people would prioritise the money they have life would be better for them and their kids.

Sky, 56" flat-screen, pokies, Maccas, tinies of cannabis and dozens of Lion Red are not essentials..

And the same applies the other way ... A $10million house is not a necessity either ... there are now something like 12 suburbs in Orcland wth an average house price above $1million - that's a lot of money tied up in bricks and mortar and not wandering around in the money system .. and we wonder why there is not much money around .. and what happened to "things are tight right now" .. there seems to be plenty of money for SOME people to buy houses in Orcland ... where house rpices just keep going up ..

Yeah. It'd have to be society's fault, eh?

As opposed to just too many lazy bastards not actually earning their keep, fr'instance.

It's both - lazy bastards and the heirachical structural nature of our society - it doesn't need to be one or the other, as some people think - it can be both ..

Show me someone who generates more revenue for the company than he costs in wages. I've got work for him.

Tell me - how much do the capitalist bosses generate? Invest the money in a company, go and play golf (I'm being a little facetious there) while the workers produce the goods with the sweat of their brows (metophorical) and get wages - while the capitalist rakes off the cream ... and buys a $10million house on Paratai Drive so he can look across the valley at the living conditions of the people he pays shit wages to.

The rest? Mebe society's at fault for leading the poor dears to expect more pay than they're actually worth?

WHat is the value of a human being? When one gets killed its millions - when one human being needs a job it is FUCK ALL!

The fact that nobody finds it worth the asking rate suggests exactly that, their skills, (again, or lack of them) are unnecessary.

Otherwise they'd be working, innit?

THe same serntence applies to workers - when the job is not worth the going rate why sign on?

That's only difficult to understand if you insist that every man's work is worth the same.

No no - that;s paert of the propoganda system that keeps the capitalist heirachy in place - and suckers like you have bought into it .. why would one person's work be worth more than another person's work? JUst because one person can do X and the otrher can do Y? THat's bullshit ..

In the real world people find they can afford to have someone build them a fence, for example, for say $1000. But if it costs too much more they'll either decide it's not worth the cost, or perhaps thay'll do it themselves.

The work's ALWAYS there if you want it. But you'll be working for whatever the market offers.

So the real trick is to arm yourself with as valuable a set of skills as you can manage.


Or go hungry.

In our "real world" that is true - but it doesn't have to be that way ... we can structure our society differently

I agree - let idle people starve .. but why should one worker get paid more than an other worker for "eight hours fair work" just because they do different jobs? Or were born with different abilities?

[mashman]

i've said nothing about the good old days & it's no tougher now than it was then, you can manage if you have to, no it's not easy but it is do-able, I've never owned a home or any other property but we've had a fairly good life with ups & downs, in fact I think we're better off now as we only have one kid left at home we own our bikes & can move when ever we want

& the tiny portion you say is only the tip, you have govt people ripping the system, big companys not paying tax, single mums/dads on the DPB & living with a partner etc & who cops it the little man/woman who goes out every day to work & pays his/her tax on a average to low income

there are still good jobs around if you're willing to move, they're importing workers for CHCH rebuild (well paid in alot of areas), orchard work (average) all over the sth Is, so the work is here all you have to do is get off your backside & find it, it may not be the one you want to be in for the next 20years etc... but it is a start... & it does give you self worth to be working, so you can break the vicious circle if you have the balls to try

I read 80's and 90's and blacked out. My apologies.

I agree it's doable, but I'd argue that it's an unnecessary position to put people in. We need to work to earn money to eat. The jobs that pay well have people in them, they don't want to move because it fuels their lifestyle. Not enough of those types of jobs are newly created. The opposite seems to be true these days. So you end up with people who are working (yes there are lazy feckers) but don't earn enough and have to claim from the state, WFF etc... There are also those who limit their tax liability for whatever reasons. This leaves less and less money available in order to "pay" those who would like to get ahead. For this to happen a well paying job needs to become available. It's an unnecessary position to put a person in given that they are working imho. It's not a reflection on the person.

You're right, there are many people "on the take". Hardly surprising given that money is everything. Yes it's those who earn big bucks who pay the lions share of taxation, but I don't begrudge that as those who are "less fortunate" need to eat etc... even the lazy feckers. The alternative isn't pretty ugly for those ("us") who get in the way of "desperate" people wanting to put food on the table/a 55" TV in every room etc... That needs to be dealt with, not legislated for.

Having the balls to try and wanting to uproot your entire life for money is a sad state of affairs. I can't believe that we actually expect people to do this. Sure if there's a need to rebuild Chch vast swathes of the population should arrive their tools in hand and just get on with it. However your society makes this a long hard slog. You need money to start with. Then you need trained people due to safety concerns and only wanting to pay good money for "qualified" workers else you end up with monkeys and potentially shoddy build issues. the move is the tip of the iceberg. That and any rational person would see moving their family to an active earthquake zone as madness. Society drives how these issues are approached. It's not down tools let's get stuck in and help these people. It's, hey, here's lots of money for you to earn, come earn it if you like, the people of Chch can wait. If society is works according to "my" model, I'd be down there with my tent offering whatever skills I have (labourer) and helping people get their lives back on track after a disaster. It isn't, hence we have what we have and we all scramble to grasp a big a part of the pot as we can.

This is why your society has financially related crime and the associated social issues. I don't appreciate your society because the associated social issues from your society spill across into my society, and needlessly so according to the "rules and regs" of my society.