Learning from Icelanders - How to sack a corrupt government

**mashman** · 8th November 2012, 09:15

I haven't watched the videos and saw nothing about this in the silent media. Most of the articles on this are blogs or Occupy related. Ahhhh the media, friend to the people

**MisterD** · 8th November 2012, 09:54

Originally Posted by mashman

I haven't watched the videos and saw nothing about this in the silent media. Most of the articles on this are blogs or Occupy related. Ahhhh the media, friend to the people

There was plenty about it at the time, and that blog gets substantial bits of the story wrong - Iceland's banks weren't nationalized or bailed out, they were allowed to fail.

Quite amusingly ironic that the Occupy crowd are making a big deal about capitalism and the market being allowed to work properly.

**oneofsix** · 8th November 2012, 10:10

Originally Posted by MisterD

There was plenty about it at the time, and that blog gets substantial bits of the story wrong - Iceland's banks weren't nationalized or bailed out, they were allowed to fail.

Quite amusingly ironic that the Occupy crowd are making a big deal about capitalism and the market being allowed to work properly.

talk about mis-direction. The Occupy crowd were protesting about many varied things but the main thrust was that when capitalism and "the market" fail the general populace were forced, through their corrupt government, to bail out the banks etc. The population bailing out the very people that are quite happy to watch them starve and go without good medical care.

Go Iceland

BTW the article said nationalization of THE bank, the one main bank, not the bankS so at least you were correct on that point.

**Banditbandit** · 8th November 2012, 11:05

Originally Posted by mashman

I haven't watched the videos and saw nothing about this in the silent media[/U][/B][/URL]. Most of the articles on this are blogs or Occupy related. Ahhhh the media, friend to the people

I knew about it at the time ... I was amused .. as MisterD said - the banks were allowed to fail ... that meant the debt went up in smoke and did not belong to the country ..

An amusing and different response to financial crisis to the freaked out Greeks and Spaniards ... mind you- a much smaller population ..

**mashman** · 8th November 2012, 11:12

Originally Posted by MisterD

There was plenty about it at the time, and that blog gets substantial bits of the story wrong - Iceland's banks weren't nationalized or bailed out, they were allowed to fail.

Quite amusingly ironic that the Occupy crowd are making a big deal about capitalism and the market being allowed to work properly.

I knew about the financial side of it as NatGeo did a couple of docos and Iceland and it's financial issues figured, but there was not mention of people protesting, writing a constitution, the govt resigning and those who were "responsible" held to account. This came as news to me.

You believe that the market is operating as it should? Ooooooook.

**HenryDorsetCase** · 8th November 2012, 11:13

Originally Posted by Banditbandit

I knew about it at the time ... I was amused .. as MisterD said - the banks were allowed to fail ... that meant the debt went up in smoke and did not belong to the country ..

An amusing and different response to financial crisis to the freaked out Greeks and Spaniards ... mind you- a much smaller population ..

there are other key differences too: Iceland I think has oil revenue or other wealth generating ability that those countries don't have.

How the Iceland bank got in the shit is covered in the film about the GFC called INSIDE JOB: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1645089/

VERY good film.

**MisterD** · 8th November 2012, 12:23

Originally Posted by oneofsix

talk about mis-direction. The Occupy crowd were protesting about many varied things but the main thrust was that when capitalism and "the market" fail the general populace were forced, through their corrupt government, to bail out the banks etc. The population bailing out the very people that are quite happy to watch them starve and go without good medical care.

Go Iceland

BTW the article said nationalization of THE bank, the one main bank, not the bankS so at least you were correct on that point.

Which isn't capitalism. The market didn't "fail", it was never allowed to work. The US government guarantee (via Fannie and Freddie) for loans to people who had no hope of actually repaying them was the main problem. Bankers were divorced from market pressures (not capitalism) and the the politicians came up with this "Too Big..." excuse to bail out their cronies (again, not capitalism).

Government guarantees created a property bubble, which burst, and now they're frantically inflating a government bubble with money from thin air, to take its place. Gonna be a whole heap more pain when that goes "pop".

More government regulation to solve a problem caused by government regulation and more debt to solve a problem of too much debt. Thelma & Louise over the fiscal cliff, isn't it? Mmmm?

Oh, and re: that bank, it went into receivership before the planned nationisation actually happened.

**Banditbandit** · 8th November 2012, 13:31

**oneofsix** · 8th November 2012, 13:53

Originally Posted by MisterD

Which isn't capitalism. The market didn't "fail", it was never allowed to work. The US government guarantee (via Fannie and Freddie) for loans to people who had no hope of actually repaying them was the main problem. Bankers were divorced from market pressures (not capitalism) and the the politicians came up with this "Too Big..." excuse to bail out their cronies (again, not capitalism).

Government guarantees created a property bubble, which burst, and now they're frantically inflating a government bubble with money from thin air, to take its place. Gonna be a whole heap more pain when that goes "pop".

More government regulation to solve a problem caused by government regulation and more debt to solve a problem of too much debt. Thelma & Louise over the fiscal cliff, isn't it? Mmmm?

Oh, and re: that bank, it went into receivership before the planned nationisation actually happened.

There you go jumping in the middle again. The market was fucked before the US of A government tried to prop it up. You are therefore agreeing with me, the market failed and the government propped it up.

It was the greedy markets dodgey maths and bundling of suspect and bad loans that screwed it in the first place.

Liked the video Bandit

**scissorhands** · 8th November 2012, 14:02

Iceland or Greenland also use thermal electricity extensively
to the point of being fossil fuel free [almost] by 2017.

**Winston001** · 8th November 2012, 16:27

Originally Posted by mashman

I haven't watched the videos and saw nothing about this in the silent media. Most of the articles on this are blogs or Occupy related. Ahhhh the media, friend to the people

Once again, don't blindly accept everything you find on the net. Often its narrow, misleading, or plain wrong.

Iceland: lovely country. Tiny. Sod all resources but plenty of geothermal energy. Iceland relies 40% on fishing (declining) plus has an aluminium smelter and a ferris-silicate smelter plus tourism.

The Icelandic currency fell through the floor after the bank default. Consequently its an expensive place to live because most stuff is imported. They want to adopt either the Euro or the Canadian $ but cannot decide.

As far as money is concerned, Iceland survived the GFC only because the IMF gave them a $10 billion loan.

And finally, the population of the entire country is only 318,000. More people than that have gone bankrupt in California alone. The written off debt owed by the Icelandic bank pales into insignificance beside other nations. Essentially they are too small for the international bankers to chase and they ain't got much anyway.

**mashman** · 8th November 2012, 18:24

Originally Posted by Winston001

Once again, don't blindly accept everything you find on the net. Often its narrow, misleading, or plain wrong.

Iceland: lovely country. Tiny. Sod all resources but plenty of geothermal energy. Iceland relies 40% on fishing (declining) plus has an aluminium smelter and a ferris-silicate smelter plus tourism.

The Icelandic currency fell through the floor after the bank default. Consequently its an expensive place to live because most stuff is imported. They want to adopt either the Euro or the Canadian $ but cannot decide.

As far as money is concerned, Iceland survived the GFC only because the IMF gave them a $10 billion loan.

And finally, the population of the entire country is only 318,000. More people than that have gone bankrupt in California alone. The written off debt owed by the Icelandic bank pales into insignificance beside other nations. Essentially they are too small for the international bankers to chase and they ain't got much anyway.

Another one with the preoccupation with the money side of things... can't for the life of me think why. It was the other stuff that I didn't know about... and the loan that you mention

... which was more my focus for the article. It's great to see a population tell their "leaders" to fuck off where they have grave misgivings about how they're conducting business. We vote for our favourite colour. I found that amusing.

**Winston001** · 8th November 2012, 19:36

Ok. Money. Lets reverse the Icelandic situation where loans were written off but a whole new chunk of finance was offered.

Christchurch: no support of AMI, EQC has run dry, we can't expect taxpayers in other cities to front up for you guys - government says sorry but that's the way we roll. Easy. That is a pure economic model.

No real problem eh? The Canterbury folk are resourceful and they will repair their city without money. Seems fair...to the rest of us...

**Winston001** · 8th November 2012, 19:43

Incidentally my quasi nephew is married to a (gorgeous) Icelandic girl and lives there doing post-grad studies so I know quite a bit about this obscure nation. They are coming home to Dunedin soon for medical studies and a better life.

**mashman** · 8th November 2012, 20:31

Originally Posted by Winston001

Ok. Money. Lets reverse the Icelandic situation where loans were written off but a whole new chunk of finance was offered.

Christchurch: no support of AMI, EQC has run dry, we can't expect taxpayers in other cities to front up for you guys - government says sorry but that's the way we roll. Easy. That is a pure economic model.

No real problem eh? The Canterbury folk are resourceful and they will repair their city without money. Seems fair...to the rest of us...

Does the monetary policy set by the fed cause recession? or does some world event cause the fed to change the rate that they lend at? And don;t forget the African debt write off too. It made a world of difference eh.

Wasn't AMI backed by the govt? We're all fronting up for Chch. Have you seen the cost of insurance premiums lately? I don't have a problem with doing what it takes to get the ball rolling down there, it can't be much fun for many. Be nice to take that 12 bill earmarked for roads and putting it into Chch.

Originally Posted by Winston001

Incidentally my quasi nephew is married to a (gorgeous) Icelandic girl and lives there doing post-grad studies so I know quite a bit about this obscure nation. They are coming home to Dunedin soon for medical studies and a better life.

I know a few people that have been to Iceland too. Hasn't it always been an expensive place to live?