MotoGP 2013

[steveyb]

Both the Honda RCV and the Ducati GP13 are 90 deg V engines, but as pointed out in that piece, the transmission of the Ducati is long, much longer than the compact (and probably piggybacked to some degree) Honda transmission.
This makes the whole engine much longer than the honda engine even after they tilt the engine backwards to compensate for the 90 deg V putting the bottom cylinders too close to the front wheel.
So if it is so that the drive sprocket is rear of centre, or in a less than ideal position, then perhaps it continues to come all the way back to the engine just being the wrong shape and size.

[Mental Trousers]

I liked the article that pointed out how far rear of centre the Ducati front drive sprocket is. The Honda and the Yamaha both have their drive sprockets exactly half distance between the front and rear axles. The item reasoned that this placement would make the Ducati handle like a chopper compared to the others.

When the new Speed Triple was designed the battery was moved up by the steering head to put more weight over the front wheel.
Perhaps to make up for the drive sprocket being so far back? The S3 sprocket is rear of half way, but nowhere near as far back as on the Duc GP bike.

But I'm not an engineer, and they're paying some highly qualified guys to sort all this out, so I await their results with interest.

The Ducati engineers are extremely talented engineers who will come up with brilliant designs that fill the required specs. But in the past the required spec was whatever management, ie Preziosi wanted, which was a low CoG with a rearward weight bias.

Now the management has changed they're taking a different approach. They started by getting a decent testing programme in place which included the junior team and Michele Pirro. Now it seems they've moved onto chassis stiffness. Next they'll move on to something else, probably one of weight bias or engine power characteristics.

Both the Honda RCV and the Ducati GP13 are 90 deg V engines, but as pointed out in that piece, the transmission of the Ducati is long, much longer than the compact (and probably piggybacked to some degree) Honda transmission.
This makes the whole engine much longer than the honda engine even after they tilt the engine backwards to compensate for the 90 deg V putting the bottom cylinders too close to the front wheel.
So if it is so that the drive sprocket is rear of centre, or in a less than ideal position, then perhaps it continues to come all the way back to the engine just being the wrong shape and size.

As you've said, Honda have shown the 90 degree vee four layout isn't the problem and the major difference in their engines is the layout and location of the gearbox. So they'd probably make quite a difference by redesigning the gearbox to make the engine more compact and get the centre of gravity up higher.

[Crasherfromwayback]

and get the centre of gravity up higher.

For sure a motorcycle with too low a centre of gravity handles like plop. One of the many problems with the fuel tank in the belly pan NSR500.

[tail_end_charlie]

Seems interesting that Ducati is taking a slightly different route to Honda and Yamaha in the non-MSMA category and will be provided the GP13 to those teams that are interested. Sounds like all the are doing is putting in the MM electronics package and a bigger fuel tank and going to race with 12 engines. Nicky Hayden seems keen to try the CRT spec softer rear slick and see if that cures some of their traction problems.

Might not be idea overall, they could sign teams up and use them as Guinea pigs for different solutions. Might find that Ducati have two factory bikes, two satellite bikes, a lab bike, and a couple of experimental 'CRT' type bikes to try stuff on. Hope they have a lot of data annalists on hand because they will be bringing in testing data by the truckload.

[merv]

I presume the Ducati "L" engine still has the front two cylinders pointing flat forward whereas Honda's "V" engine has them set at 45deg or did they already tilt the cylinders up? If not that all adds to the length of the engine as well as the large gearbox.

[pritch]

I presume the Ducati "L" engine still has the front two cylinders pointing flat forward whereas Honda's "V" engine has them set at 45deg or did they already tilt the cylinders up? If not that all adds to the length of the engine as well as the large gearbox.

No, they tilted it back some time ago.

[BMWST?]

I reckon there is also a lot of input from the driveline into the rear suspension the way you see it pogoing on the exit of the corners seems less pronounced now than when CS was caning it

sent from the tag

[Crasherfromwayback]

I reckon there is also a lot of input from the driveline into the rear suspension the way you see it pogoing on the exit of the corners seems less pronounced now than when CS was caning it

sent from the tag

A lot of that may just be because he was famous for getting on the gas really hard really early.

[roogazza]

A lot of that may just be because he was famous for getting on the gas really hard really early.

I think too much is expected of Ducati after the 2007 bike, that obviously had the jump on the oposition in outright HP and electronics. They employed a rider who could ride around the understeer problems and gave them the title that year.
After that, the oposition caught up and Ducati were left with a rider still trying to make up for quirky handling.
Sure Stoner still pulled some rides on it but the troubles stayed.

It's wierd that Ducati has taken so long to change the last thing, the engine. (length and position).

[pritch]

It's wierd that Ducati has taken so long to change the last thing, the engine. (length and position).

I think it was one of the riders (Rossi?) recently commented on the difference between Japanese and Italian engineers.
If you point out a problem to the Japanese engineers they are grateful, you have given them something to work on, a way forward.
The Italian engineers, on the other hand, are offended that you dare criticise their bike.

Poor Milandri, when he complained about the handling of the Duc they sent him to a psychologist. That'll fix it, yeah right.

[BMWST?]

Poor Milandri, when he complained about the handling of the Duc they sent him to a psychologist. That'll fix it, yeah right.

They had other data too.they were seeing the lap times going backwards in relation to the others

sent from the tag

[roogazza]

I think it was one of the riders (Rossi?) recently commented on the difference between Japanese and Italian engineers.
If you point out a problem to the Japanese engineers they are grateful, you have given them something to work on, a way forward.
The Italian engineers, on the other hand, are offended that you dare criticise their bike.

Poor Milandri, when he complained about the handling of the Duc they sent him to a psychologist. That'll fix it, yeah right.

Yes I've read that. I think Crasher mentioned back a bit about the fuel tank on the NSR, Honda soon got in there and changed it into a winner.
As Ducati had Stoner, Honda had Spencer the other ingredient. I can't actually remember which came first the four or the Three as in V3 , but the V3 was good out of the box.
oh, yes, V3 in 83 , then Lawson Yamaha 84 and Honda again with the double in 85 as in 250/500. A mate of mine worked on the Honda team of 85.

[Mental Trousers]

It's wierd that Ducati has taken so long to change the last thing, the engine. (length and position).

I think it was one of the riders (Rossi?) recently commented on the difference between Japanese and Italian engineers.
If you point out a problem to the Japanese engineers they are grateful, you have given them something to work on, a way forward.
The Italian engineers, on the other hand, are offended that you dare criticise their bike.

Poor Milandri, when he complained about the handling of the Duc they sent him to a psychologist. That'll fix it, yeah right.

That was most definitely the head engineer at Ducati, Preziosi. Brilliant designer and engineer but equally arrogant and stubborn. He was an engine designer first and foremost and that's why the engine layout and electronics are suited for making the most power. It was up to the rider to figure out how to use all that power.

[nudemetalz]

Finally !!!!
Still, means buying another receiver, but they ain't expensive.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/motorsp...-gone-from-Sky

"....The New Zealand broadcast rights for the rest of the 2013 MotoGP motorcycle racing season have been secured by Sommet Sports TV.
The new Freeview outfit, whose channel is provisionally up and running but set to launch officially in 10 days, will offer live coverage of the 2013 MotoGP series and highlights programmes....."

[Muzzab]

Finally !!!!
Still, means buying another receiver, but they ain't expensive.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/motorsp...-gone-from-Sky

"....The New Zealand broadcast rights for the rest of the 2013 MotoGP motorcycle racing season have been secured by Sommet Sports TV.
The new Freeview outfit, whose channel is provisionally up and running but set to launch officially in 10 days, will offer live coverage of the 2013 MotoGP series and highlights programmes....."

A google of Sommet Sports got me here http://www.sommetsports.co.nz on the about tab it says the coverage will be streamed live so another receiver may not be necessary, hopefully.