ACC training providers announced

[James Deuce]

This means you have a chance to get some of your ACC levy money back in the form of national coaching from these 3 providers..... its the only way we have a chance of lowering the bike rego cost - by reducing the accident and injury rate in NZ.

umm, rubbish. Rego will never, ever be cheaper.

In regard to the second point, the accident and injury rate has never been lower per head of motorcycle riding capita and is trending downward.

IMO it is utter bullshit that track days give you any kind of training for road conditions. They're fun, and you do stuff with your bike you had no idea it or you were capable of, but it provides no help at all when you are faced with a speeding Police car running a red light at 5:30 am, before you've had your first coffee.

[HD'er]

Perhaps we should pen a letter to the ACC people, to tell them of the poor choices they have made with all out ACC money. I mean 3 trainers for the whole country?? two of those are track racers I heard. A friend of mine did a road riding course with Prorider, and said it was a joke.
I am going to send a email to Lindsay Johnston Lindsay Johnson MCIPS Senior Category Manager, Print and Logistics, ACC) ACC, Lindsay Johnson and ACC / Corporate Procurement / Level 11, Vogel Centre, 19 Aitken Street
PO Box 242 / Wellington 6011 / New Zealand / www.acc.co.nz, also
Sara Hay, Corporate Procurement Manager, on 04 816 5471 or 027 6866672.
this is our acc money, and I think they are wasting it. We deserve a say in this.
It's just stupid, having to do a track day, before a road riding day... and I don't fancy having to ride to welly to go to the other trainer.

Thanks for responding. I note however on the Pro Rider website:

"Prior Learning Requirement for SmartRider Day
You must have attended at least 1 SafeRider course prior to the SmartRider course"

This Saferider course is on a track is it not? I guess what I have a concern about is that the prerequesite for ACC funded "motorcycle" training takes place on a track which most insurance companies do not cover for even if it is closed.

[Qkkid]

Yes i agree, there is never meant to be a precursor to do a full price Track course (its all about grabbing the $$$$'s) to be able to gain access to do a free / subsidised course which is paid by ACC which is your money
So the more people who reply back to Lindsay johnson @acc.co.nz the better.
It was crazy that all the way from Waikato-Tauraunga up to Northland only one provider for that whole region ,people are going to miss out because of the travel/time of the people and the "Small minded short sightedness of ACC"
It should be free to all and accessed by every "Riding School" throughout the region
However thats just my opinion

Perhaps we should pen a letter to the ACC people, to tell them of the poor choices they have made with all out ACC money. I mean 3 trainers for the whole country?? two of those are track racers I heard. A friend of mine did a road riding course with Prorider, and said it was a joke.
I am going to send a email to Lindsay Johnston Lindsay Johnson MCIPS Senior Category Manager, Print and Logistics, ACC) ACC, Lindsay Johnson and ACC / Corporate Procurement / Level 11, Vogel Centre, 19 Aitken Street
PO Box 242 / Wellington 6011 / New Zealand / www.acc.co.nz, also
Sara Hay, Corporate Procurement Manager, on 04 816 5471 or 027 6866672.
this is our acc money, and I think they are wasting it. We deserve a say in this.
It's just stupid, having to do a track day, before a road riding day... and I don't fancy having to ride to welly to go to the other trainer.

Thanks for responding. I note however on the Pro Rider website:

"Prior Learning Requirement for SmartRider Day
You must have attended at least 1 SafeRider course prior to the SmartRider course"

This Saferider course is on a track is it not? I guess what I have a concern about is that the prerequesite for ACC funded "motorcycle" training takes place on a track which most insurance companies do not cover for even if it is closed.

[MadDuck]

Perhaps we should pen a letter to the ACC people, to tell them of the poor choices they have made with all out ACC money. I mean 3 trainers for the whole country??

This is a great idea. I personally would wait until the "official" announcement has been made with specific details before doing this though.

[James Deuce]

Bearing in mind that any perceived backlash from motorcyclists complaining about being given training will be a very powerful PR tool for ACC.

[MadDuck]

Bearing in mind that any perceived backlash from motorcyclists complaining about being given training will be a very powerful PR tool for ACC.

We can't win really can we?

[James Deuce]

Not even with all the high profile charity work different motorcycle related organisations have done across the years behind us.

It's what I bleated about last time. We need to have a prepared PR campaign that is bubbling along in the public eye, all the time. Pushing the positive improvement in stats on a monthly basis, highlighting people commuting on two wheels (there's more and more of them all the time and many are riding scooters) discussing the self-accessed training programmes, talking about ratuscat's positive approach to modifying road-user behaviour from the perspective of a Police Officer, so that when we do suggest that the training suggested by ACC may not meet the needs of its biggest market, we look like we are making a positive critique and commenting on the desire to make this training more accessible, instead of whiny babies who were gifted an opportunity (yes, I know we paid for it - the "public" will never understand that) and then moaned that it isn't good enough.

[Subike]

I went on a subsidized advanced open road course with mainland Riding here in Christchurch today.
Was it worth it? Yes because I learnt a couple of things. What the adhesion limits of my tires were under sever braking.
The road signs with recommended speeds for corners all say different things, and learning to read the signs makes my ride more comfortable.
How much more trust I can put into the front wheels grip on a down hill road, and why.
That I ride too close to the left of the road in open road areas, where I would have a low reaction time if an animal of any sort decided to cross in front of me.
I recommend doing any sort of training you can get, even learning one small thing, makes it worth it. So go for it if you can.

[caseye]

OK, so in a nut shell, we've had an announcement from one of the three accredited training providers.
We've had some dialogue with pro rider, right up to the point where MD asked some very good and enlightening questions.
Since then, NOTHING.
Telling us in one breath that we "should" make use of ACC's offer of training, but of course there's a fucking catch!
Got to do a closed course track training day that costs, um how much again?
Keep asking the questions MD, the FBMC Security detail will ride again at this rate.

[MadDuck]

I went on a subsidized advanced open road course with mainland Riding here in Christchurch today.
Was it worth it? Yes because I learnt a couple of things. The road signs with recommended speeds for corners all say different things, and learning to read the signs makes my ride more comfortable.

Was this training on the open road or on a track? I have never seen these "road signs" on Pukekohe, Hampton Downs, Taupo or Manfeild unless you are referring to the braking signs.

[Subike]

Was this training on the open road or on a track? I have never seen these "road signs" on Pukekohe, Hampton Downs, Taupo or Manfeild unless you are referring to the braking signs.

open road riding Mad Duck. ChCh to Akaroa and back.
But the provider of the training course has arranged evening track days latter this month on Ruapuna for $50, and if your insured with Vero, riding under the course providers flag, then your insurance is valid for the track time. Also when providing the certificate of attendance to Vero when paying your premium, you get the $50 back as a reduction on you next years premium. Win win in my book.

[Berries]

The road signs with recommended speeds for corners all say different things, and learning to read the signs makes my ride more comfortable.

Can you expand on that? You have obviously been riding for a few years, so what did you actually learn about those signs?

[Subike]

Can you expand on that? You have obviously been riding for a few years, so what did you actually learn about those signs?

look at the yellow signs, they indicate differing radius's of the corner, from a gentle left or right curve , to a tightening hair pin.
For example , approaching a right hand corner, and you see a left hand corner sigh just before it, with a 35kph posting. This means the right hander can be taken at 100k, but leads immediately into a 35k left hander. So you can position yourself on the road in the right place to brake and take the left hander at a safe speed, rather than have it just appear with a wtf moment.
Say you are approaching a left hander, and the sign shows an s bend @ 55k, but the first curve is to the right? What? The corner you are entering is ok at 100kph, but is followed immediately by a series of s bends starting with a right hander. Think about where you want to be on the road for that right hander as you negotiate the left hander. And your already prepared for the flip flop into the S's.
There are the signs that will indicate a blind intersecting road, on the inside of the bend. seeing this tells you not to close apex the corner in case a vehicle is comming out of that blind corner, which you will run into because neither of you will see each other. late apexing the corner, at such a speed you can see the intersecting road will give you the room to avoid any vehicle blindly entering your path.
On your next ride, take note of what these speed signs say , other than its a left or right hander at X recommended speed. You will soon see they give way more information about the corner than what you first might think.

[Berries]

Cheers, I actually misread what you said there for a minute but yes, you are correct.

For those others who might have misread what you said though, if it is a reverse curve and the second curve has the lower speed that lower speed will be the speed on the sign. Do not therefore assume you can take the first curve at normal road speed and set yourself up for the sharp one. The sign could be 35 for the second curve but the first curve is a 45. Hit that one at 110 and you'll be touching cloth. And possibly a well placed strainer post.

As always though, caveat emptor. There are signs out there that show the curve is left/right when in fact it is right /left, and some of the speeds shown are pretty dodgy, which is a problem if you double them when on the bike. I have heard that some do.

[Subike]

The sign could be 35 for the second curve but the first curve is a 45. Hit that one at 110 and you'll be touching cloth. And possibly a well placed strainer post. .

Yes, what you say make sense. I was thinking about this point when the tutor explained it to me, but although the first corner is not speed posted, the knowledge of the second corner can allow you to begin setting your road position and speed up in you mind before arriving at that point of action ,rather than arriving at the point of action, and then thinking about it. Something that i commonly see riders doing and ending up running wide over the center line or too fast and not tight enough, thus ending up in the dirt on the outside of the corner . That strainer post placed by the farmer to keep the fence in the right place for the farm becomes the stopper that hurts or that on coming vehicle has a bumper thats going to deform your front wheel as you cross the center line.