ACC training providers announced

[Tricia1000]

Are you telling me that you were taught how to read the yellow warning signs? What about the times when there aren't any yellow signs. In my vicinity there was a 90 degree bend, no signs. I had a word with the council several times about it, and finally there were signs.

BUT, did your instructor teach you anything about how to really read a corner, using the LIMIT POINT, or VANISHING POINT or VISUAL POINT???????
If not, then you should be asking for your money back, because you were robbed.. That is the REAL way to read a corner..

Tricia1000
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA

look at the yellow signs, they indicate differing radius's of the corner, from a gentle left or right curve , to a tightening hair pin.
For example , approaching a right hand corner, and you see a left hand corner sigh just before it, with a 35kph posting. This means the right hander can be taken at 100k, but leads immediately into a 35k left hander. So you can position yourself on the road in the right place to brake and take the left hander at a safe speed, rather than have it just appear with a wtf moment.
Say you are approaching a left hander, and the sign shows an s bend @ 55k, but the first curve is to the right? What? The corner you are entering is ok at 100kph, but is followed immediately by a series of s bends starting with a right hander. Think about where you want to be on the road for that right hander as you negotiate the left hander. And your already prepared for the flip flop into the S's.
There are the signs that will indicate a blind intersecting road, on the inside of the bend. seeing this tells you not to close apex the corner in case a vehicle is comming out of that blind corner, which you will run into because neither of you will see each other. late apexing the corner, at such a speed you can see the intersecting road will give you the room to avoid any vehicle blindly entering your path.
On your next ride, take note of what these speed signs say , other than its a left or right hander at X recommended speed. You will soon see they give way more information about the corner than what you first might think.

[nzspokes]

Its a shame this opportunity has been lost.

[Subike]

Are you telling me that you were taught how to read the yellow warning signs? What about the times when there aren't any yellow signs. In my vicinity there was a 90 degree bend, no signs. I had a word with the council several times about it, and finally there were signs.

BUT, did your instructor teach you anything about how to really read a corner, using the LIMIT POINT, or VANISHING POINT or VISUAL POINT???????
If not, then you should be asking for your money back, because you were robbed.. That is the REAL way to read a corner..

Tricia1000
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA

Yes Trica1000, those points were covered, if I was to write up about all the things covered, then it would be at least a page long. Just posting about one item of information, in a way that others can understand what I'm saying, is a mission in its self, my comprehension skills etc, are not as good as others on this site. Even doing a blog would end up a quagmire of dribble you would need a month to understand.
A days worth of information transferred to these pages would become a book. So better to give enough information to get a person interested in doing a course themselves, rather than only half the information and confusing them even more.You only have to look at the Road Code to see that even that publication, holds but a smidgin of what you need to learn to be a safe driver/rider on the road.

[nzspokes]

Its a shame this opportunity has been lost.

Sorry I should say lost for Aucklanders.

[nzspokes]

Yes Trica1000, those points were covered, if I was to write up about all the things covered, then it would be at least a page long. Just posting about one item of information, in a way that others can understand what I'm saying, is a mission in its self, my comprehension skills etc, are not as good as others on this site. Even doing a blog would end up a quagmire of dribble you would need a month to understand.
A days worth of information transferred to these pages would become a book. So better to give enough information to get a person interested in doing a course themselves, rather than only half the information and confusing them even more.You only have to look at the Road Code to see that even that publication, holds but a smidgin of what you need to learn to be a safe driver/rider on the road.

I did 3 for the last confident courses with 2 providers. 2 of them cost me $50 a pop. 1 was free. All were great. None of them were taken as a track based system. They changed how I ride.

[nzspokes]

Seems they dont wish to answer......

[nzspokes]

Seems they dont wish to answer......

And a little boy waits..........

[gunnyrob]

Well that "grinds my gears"!!!

I'm sure that the providers that have been selected are good at their jobs, but I am concerned about the other training providers that have been providing excellent training and have missed out on being able to qualify for funding.

Having done confident rider training with Phil at www.riderskills.co.nz, I managed to get quite a few of our air force riders through his programme with excellent feedback being received. As previously stated, track days are good for teaching some skills, but they do not equip you with the skills to avoid hazards on the street.

Nothing beats going out with an instructor on a one on one basis to get constructive critiques of your riding technique. This needs sorting

[ckai]

haha, had to laugh reading the first page of this thread. As soon as someone mentions something negative it all steam rolls.

Unfortunately I agree there's been no facts given though from the proper people so there's really no other view point. Maybe I can help though.

From my understanding of what Maduck is saying is that to do the course you have to attend a paid for track day first.

Im suspicious.

Just because something is held at a track doesn't mean it's a track day. There are advantages for doing road training at a track as opposed to on the road itself and vice versa. For new riders or unconfident riders, personally I think track based training is the only way to go. All these riders are in their own group and don't need to worry about anything or anybody else.

I haven't personally participated in Proriders training they do on the track but yesterday I personally witnessed it with my wife attending. I have done other courses by other providers and would have to say, this was the best in that category. This was her first training session with Prorider and was not a track day by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, they were told to go 100km/h (no faster than 120km/h) since it was road training and no point in going faster.

Yes you can do the ACC course but first you have to pay for training on a closed track at full price. I wonder if ACC know their providers are doing this....

If so, it's probably so they can turn around and say "we tried to help them but no one was interested in our training...."

ummm, couldn't be further from the truth and unsure where you got that idea from.

The thing I don't like about Track Training days is there is always some spastic twit determined to pass on the inside as you are tipping into a corner (usually the Hairpin). Freaks me out every time and is the reason I left the last day early. That is what is making me reluctant to do one of these courses.

This is an issue which I've been on the receiving end on and have also seen quite badly on one particularly training day my Dad was attending. This comes down to how the day is organized and how strict the organisers are.

From what I saw, I was quite impressed with how everyone rode at the Prorider day. It was obviously drummed into them in the classroom what was expected. Several times there was long queues of bikes going around since no one wanted to make stupid passes.

If some stupidity was present, it would have been interesting to see how it was handled.

I do think it seems silly of ACC to only have 3 providers of training for the whole of NZ. It would be interesting to know their logic behind it. If it's to do with anticipated numbers doing these courses and only larger training providers having the ability to handle it, then that makes sense.

Regarding track based training. It's not suited to everyone if the "environment" isn't right (case in point is my fathers session) but to dismiss it purely on assumption and hearsay is disappointing and a missed opportunity. If those riding adhere and understand the point of the training then it's one of the most beneficial effective forms of training you can do.

PS: I have nothing to do with Prorider or any training place. I just hate people getting the wrong idea and I feel strongly about everyone getting training in some form or another.

[MadDuck]

Unfortunately I agree there's been no facts given though from the proper people so there's really no other view point.

Which is why I asked the question. Even on their facebook page they offer no details. Not knowing the process I find it odd that they can win the ACC funding and have no programmes. None of my business I guess.

Just because something is held at a track doesn't mean it's a track day.

Problem is the insurance companies want a bigger excess for the day so "they" see it as higher risk.

I haven't personally participated in Proriders training they do on the track

I have and found it beneficial although once people got on the back straight of Pukekohe it was all on.....having said that I never felt uncomfortable. I have also attended the one on one training of an Auckland provider and found that to be far better for me on every level. Also no issue with insurance excess.

I do think it seems silly of ACC to only have 3 providers of training for the whole of NZ.

None Auckland based seems even sillier

[nzspokes]

Just because something is held at a track doesn't mean it's a track day. There are advantages for doing road training at a track as opposed to on the road itself and vice versa. For new riders or unconfident riders, personally I think track based training is the only way to go. All these riders are in their own group and don't need to worry about anything or anybody else.

Thanks for that but I dont want to do road training on the track. Same as when i do track days i dont do them on the road.

But it seems there is no information on how it works.

[tbs]

I'm not associated with Pro-Rider but I went to a training day at Puke shortly after buying my first bike and I was at the Track Day in the weekend that was run along side the Training Day at Taupo. I thought Taupo was an excellent venue with a good mix of different corners, and being the short Track 2 layout, not much opportunity to get a lot of speed up. As ckai mentioned the groups were well organized and well disciplined. It was all about learning basic machine control techniques.

There has been some grizzling about the requirement by Pro-Rider that you do their track based training before they take you out on the road for more situational awareness training. I strongly believe it is because they want to make sure your machine control is up to snuff before they have to deal with you out in the real world, and here's the kicker folks:

Some of you seasoned riders will have poor, nay, RUBBISH machine control!
I saw this with my own eyes at the Safe Rider day at Puke. And guess what? It's much easier to learn good habits from the get-go than to break well established bad ones. Machine control needs to come first, situational awareness second. You need to leave your egos behind and submit yourself to the training if you want to progress. All the situational awareness in the world won't save your ass if you can't make your bike do what you want it to do when you need it to.

I don't know why ACC won't fund this first track based session, and I think ProRider would do well pop by and explain it. But all this incessant whining about how you don't want to do any training on the track is just sooooo lame!

[tbs]

Seems they dont wish to answer......

And a little boy waits..........

Thanks for that but I dont want to do road training on the track. Same as when i do track days i dont do them on the road.

But it seems there is no information on how it works.

Go and ask Howard. He's one of Pro Rider's instructors.

[Usarka]

ummm, couldn't be further from the truth and unsure where you got that idea from.

From the Prorider website on the day I made the comment. It looks like they may have changed it which is good, but it clearly stated that there was a pre-requisite course you need to do before doing the ACC subsidised one.

I still think it's arse that the closest ACC training from our largest city is a 400km return trip. I accept this isn't proriders fault and I have no issues with them. But apart fromanything else it's hardly promoting safety getting all these noobs riding 200km, doing a days training, and then riding another 200km back home.

[tbs]

Well Puke and Hampton Downs are both inferior tracks from a training perspective. Also, Puke is closed for refurbishment and HD is really expensive to use. I believe they are trying to book a day at HD in January.

Actually I think go-kart tracks could be good for training purposes. It works for Buckets afterall.;