ACC training providers announced

[nzspokes]

Go and ask Howard. He's one of Pro Rider's instructors.

Howards not involved with Sass anymore after there marriage split. Never see him.

[MadDuck]

and I think ProRider would do well pop by and explain it.

Considering they started this thread I think that would be a grand idea.

But all this incessant whining about how you don't want to do any training on the track is just sooooo lame!

I hardly think that asking for clarification is "incessant whining" or "lame". But then this is KiwiBiker.

[caseye]

What MD said, so there!
Come on pro? rider, come tell us whats going on.

[tbs]

Considering they started this thread I think that would be a grand idea.



I hardly think that asking for clarification is "incessant whining" or "lame". But then this is KiwiBiker.

Ok I might have carried over some annoyance from Mystic Eagle's 1st stuff-up thread at some of the 'you can't learn road craft on the track' proponents. I still maintain that basic machine control comes first and road craft second.

Howards not involved with Sass anymore after there marriage split. Never see him.

Oh bugger. I haven't been to SASS in over a year. I had no idea. That sucks.

[nzspokes]

Oh bugger. I haven't been to SASS in over a year. I had no idea. That sucks.

Yup, Jane's doing great work trying to keep Sass running. Pretty big commitment when going through a big break up. I was helping where I could but my partner had a big m/cycle crash and I cant attend at the moment. Hope to return next year.

[quickbuck]

Hi Folks,
Sorry for the wait.
Karel has been really busy with getting the whole ACC Funding thing off the ground, and probably forgot all about KB.
Sorry, but it is not a big blip on the radar.

Best to e-mail Karel@prorider.co.nz if you have any curly questions.

Other than that, click on the big logo in my signature and it will take you to the web site, and any course can be booked through there.

Due to the way the ACC funding works, and with ProRider getting their courses subsidised for people north of Turangi, we don't plan a course for Manfeild (or south of Turangi) any time soon.
However Hampton Downs and Taupo, and Auckland (Puke) are coming up.
If you are a resident of south of Turangi you will not get the ACC Subsidy.

It is still awesome value though.

Another way to keep in touch is through Face Book: http://www.facebook.com/ProRiderMotorcycleTraining


Look forward to seeing you sometime.

Aaron.

[nzspokes]

Hi Folks,
Sorry for the wait.
Karel has been really busy with getting the whole ACC Funding thing off the ground, and probably forgot all about KB.
Sorry, but it is not a big blip on the radar.

Best to e-mail Karel@prorider.co.nz if you have any curly questions.

Other than that, click on the big logo in my signature and it will take you to the web site, and any course can be booked through there.

Due to the way the ACC funding works, and with ProRider getting their courses subsidised for people north of Turangi, we don't plan a course for Manfeild (or south of Turangi) any time soon.
However Hampton Downs and Taupo, and Auckland (Puke) are coming up.
If you are a resident of south of Turangi you will not get the ACC Subsidy.

It is still awesome value though.

Another way to keep in touch is through Face Book: http://www.facebook.com/ProRiderMotorcycleTraining


Look forward to seeing you sometime.

Aaron.

Seems strange the biggest motorcycle website in NZ is not on there radar.

The question still stands, do you have to do track work to get the ACC funding.

Thanks for responding.

[quickbuck]

Seems strange the biggest motorcycle website in NZ is not on there radar.

The question still stands, do you have to do track work to get the ACC funding.

Thanks for responding.

Sorry nzspokes, I missed that question.

For ACC funding on a SafeRider course (ProRider Level 1) by default you have to do track work, as that is where level 1 courses are held.
There is no prerequisite course if that is what you mean?

You do not need a full leather suit to do the course. If you ride in Cordura, then wear that.
If you carry luggage all the time, feel free to bring that too.
Initially we will get you to remove it for some skills, however it can be a good lesson to put it on and feel the difference in your bikes handling with it loaded up.

ProRider do road based training. It just so happens the best place to carry out the skills, and have a class room type facility in the same location is a track.

KB may well be the biggest Bike web site in NZ, however bigger isn't always best.
Our own web site should be the first port of call, and all queries should really be directed through there.
Facebook is also a good way to keep up with what is going on, if you have an account.

Hope this answers your question, and provides you with more info.

cheers

[nzspokes]

Sorry nzspokes, I missed that question.

For ACC funding on a SafeRider course (ProRider Level 1) by default you have to do track work, as that is where level 1 courses are held.
There is no prerequisite course if that is what you mean?

You do not need a full leather suit to do the course. If you ride in Cordura, then wear that.
If you carry luggage all the time, feel free to bring that too.
Initially we will get you to remove it for some skills, however it can be a good lesson to put it on and feel the difference in your bikes handling with it loaded up.

ProRider do road based training. It just so happens the best place to carry out the skills, and have a class room type facility in the same location is a track.

KB may well be the biggest Bike web site in NZ, however bigger isn't always best.
Our own web site should be the first port of call, and all queries should really be directed through there.
Facebook is also a good way to keep up with what is going on, if you have an account.

Hope this answers your question, and provides you with more info.

cheers

Again, thanks for responding.

As for not being on the radar, they started this thread with an advert.

Can I ask what formal training have the trainers had? And by whom?

Is the required track work needed if I was a resident of say Christchurch? Is this an ACC prerequisite?

What we need to remember that this is not free or subsidised, its money taken from our regos. So we have a right to know where this money is going. By the very nature of it being track biased I firmly believe it will deter the very riders that need it.

[ckai]

Seems strange the biggest motorcycle website in NZ is not on there radar.

more to life than the internet as well ;-)

If you carry luggage all the time, feel free to bring that too.
Initially we will get you to remove it for some skills, however it can be a good lesson to put it on and feel the difference in your bikes handling with it loaded up.

This should be the biggest give away that the level 1 course is far from the "track day" perception that some have. Bloody good idea this actually.

Sent from one of those touch do-hickies

[quickbuck]

Again, thanks for responding.

As for not being on the radar, they started this thread with an advert.

Can I ask what formal training have the trainers had? And by whom?

Is the required track work needed if I was a resident of say Christchurch? Is this an ACC prerequisite?

What we need to remember that this is not free or subsidised, its money taken from our regos. So we have a right to know where this money is going. By the very nature of it being track biased I firmly believe it will deter the very riders that need it.

Firstly, this thread wasn't started as an advert. It was an announcement.
Advertising has to be paid for.....

As for formal training, most of the trainers have an "I" endorsement on their licence.
This is required to be an ACC funded Training Provider.
As the "I" endorsement is based on instruction in a car, most of the trainers have also done various levels of CSS.
I personally have also done military courses that have taught me how to teach.
Others have had many years of experience on how to coach in various areas.
From 20+ years of road riding to UK instructors, and Racers (not that we teach how to race in the first 2 levels).

If you were to be a resident of Christchurch, then contact Dan Ornsby (Motorcycle training for Central/Lower South Island), and ask him what he provides.
That is intellectual property, and I have no idea what his training package entails.
The ACC have no prerequisites, they contracted out the training to the providers who put forward a business case to provide the required training.
There was a lot of work done to ensure the training is at the correct level, and appropriate.
We (as training providers) now have to do performance measures to demonstrate the training has been effective on the day.


As for "Track Work" as you put it, get this clear:
We use a track to simulate a road that goes around in a short loop, nothing more nothing less.
It is in no way used to race on during the course.
The speeds are kept to road speeds, and the skills learnt are all for the road.

Tracks are very good at providing areas to host 30+ students/ bikes/ gear, class rooms, and areas for coffee and lunch breaks.
They also provide large car park type areas where slow speed handling is instructed.
It all comes at a cost though. Track hire is NOT cheap!

When you advance to level 2, if the course is small enough, then we just do the whole thing on a road.
It is purely a numbers thing.

You are correct, a component of our Licence Cost is indeed providing the funding for this.
It is $30/yr in fact. Yes you do have a right to know, and I can only help with what I know.
What i do know is the subsidy for one course is substantial! Like 3/4ths of it.
So obviously there is a huge portion of citizens who are not taking up the training offered.

I personally would love to know where the other $370 goes (for my 600).

Cheers

[Tricia1000]

I want to do the skilled rider/experienced course, but the first one available is in April. (Somewhere in Auckland). I can't book till I know where abouts the venue will be. Surely, with the huge numbers of riders that you should be putting through, then one course a month, won't really get enough people through.
The web page tells me that the first course suited to my needs (Experienced Rider) is 6th April 2013.

This appears to be the first Road riding course for experienced riders.
I did see a course on 2nd March for Experienced Riders, but it is being held at Taupo Motorsport Park……… Hmmmm a 4+ hour ride each way for me plus a full day riding!!!, I don't think that even my extended concentration abilities (Not to mention needing an Iron Butt) could cope with this!! BUT I DON'T WANT TO LEARN TO RIDE AT A TRACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also, if I was living in Northland, would I have to ride 6 or so hours in each direction to avail of even the most basic course you offer?

With regard to the "i" endorsement, the Auckland motorcycle instructors did not get their "I" endorsement as a follow on from a car endorsement. When I got mine, I only wanted the "I" endorsement for class 6 (m/c). I can think of at least 4 Auckland Instructors who applied for the ACC subsidisation, and you state in your earlier post, that MOST of the Instructors are "I" endorsed. This means that some aren't. Does ACC know this?? Do the students know this???
Road riding, and dealing with the hazards as they come along, is completely different to everyone riding in the same direction....
Any more info on this, would be much appreciated.
Tricia1000
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA

Firstly, this thread wasn't started as an advert. It was an announcement.
Advertising has to be paid for.....

As for formal training, most of the trainers have an "I" endorsement on their licence.
This is required to be an ACC funded Training Provider.
As the "I" endorsement is based on instruction in a car, most of the trainers have also done various levels of CSS.
I personally have also done military courses that have taught me how to teach.
Others have had many years of experience on how to coach in various areas.
From 20+ years of road riding to UK instructors, and Racers (not that we teach how to race in the first 2 levels).

If you were to be a resident of Christchurch, then contact Dan Ornsby (Motorcycle training for Central/Lower South Island), and ask him what he provides.
That is intellectual property, and I have no idea what his training package entails.
The ACC have no prerequisites, they contracted out the training to the providers who put forward a business case to provide the required training.
There was a lot of work done to ensure the training is at the correct level, and appropriate.
We (as training providers) now have to do performance measures to demonstrate the training has been effective on the day.


As for "Track Work" as you put it, get this clear:
We use a track to simulate a road that goes around in a short loop, nothing more nothing less.
It is in no way used to race on during the course.
The speeds are kept to road speeds, and the skills learnt are all for the road.

Tracks are very good at providing areas to host 30+ students/ bikes/ gear, class rooms, and areas for coffee and lunch breaks.
They also provide large car park type areas where slow speed handling is instructed.
It all comes at a cost though. Track hire is NOT cheap!

When you advance to level 2, if the course is small enough, then we just do the whole thing on a road.
It is purely a numbers thing.

You are correct, a component of our Licence Cost is indeed providing the funding for this.
It is $30/yr in fact. Yes you do have a right to know, and I can only help with what I know.
What i do know is the subsidy for one course is substantial! Like 3/4ths of it.
So obviously there is a huge portion of citizens who are not taking up the training offered.

I personally would love to know where the other $370 goes (for my 600).

Cheers

[nzspokes]

Firstly, this thread wasn't started as an advert. It was an announcement.
Advertising has to be paid for.....

As for formal training, most of the trainers have an "I" endorsement on their licence.
This is required to be an ACC funded Training Provider.
As the "I" endorsement is based on instruction in a car, most of the trainers have also done various levels of CSS.
I personally have also done military courses that have taught me how to teach.
Others have had many years of experience on how to coach in various areas.
From 20+ years of road riding to UK instructors, and Racers (not that we teach how to race in the first 2 levels).

If you were to be a resident of Christchurch, then contact Dan Ornsby (Motorcycle training for Central/Lower South Island), and ask him what he provides.
That is intellectual property, and I have no idea what his training package entails.
The ACC have no prerequisites, they contracted out the training to the providers who put forward a business case to provide the required training.
There was a lot of work done to ensure the training is at the correct level, and appropriate.
We (as training providers) now have to do performance measures to demonstrate the training has been effective on the day.


As for "Track Work" as you put it, get this clear:
We use a track to simulate a road that goes around in a short loop, nothing more nothing less.
It is in no way used to race on during the course.
The speeds are kept to road speeds, and the skills learnt are all for the road.

Tracks are very good at providing areas to host 30+ students/ bikes/ gear, class rooms, and areas for coffee and lunch breaks.
They also provide large car park type areas where slow speed handling is instructed.
It all comes at a cost though. Track hire is NOT cheap!

When you advance to level 2, if the course is small enough, then we just do the whole thing on a road.
It is purely a numbers thing.

You are correct, a component of our Licence Cost is indeed providing the funding for this.
It is $30/yr in fact. Yes you do have a right to know, and I can only help with what I know.
What i do know is the subsidy for one course is substantial! Like 3/4ths of it.
So obviously there is a huge portion of citizens who are not taking up the training offered.

I personally would love to know where the other $370 goes (for my 600).

Cheers

So you have an I endorsement is for motorcycles? And would it not be better for people to go direct to CSS rather learn from students of the course?

When is your next course at Pukekohe?

ACC could make an announcement, Prorider did an add.

[Tricia1000]

What i do know is the subsidy for one course is substantial! Like 3/4ths of it.
So obviously there is a huge portion of citizens who are not taking up the training offered.

And the reason for that could possibly lack of access;
Think about this:
I live in Whangaparaoa, so, Even for me pukekohe is a 1.5 hour ride in each direction, and Taupo is a 4 hour ride in each direction..
The north shore would near enough have the highest concentration per capita of people on small - medium sized m/c, and for someone really new to ride over the auckland harbour bridge will be quite enough to make them change their trousers. PDQ!!!!
So, if someone who has only ridden a few months, wants to do a safe rider course, they need to get themselves to either hampton downs, Waikato or Taupo motorsport park, which according to my google map is, from the north shore, 1 hour to Hampton downs (across the bridge, and on the motorway) IN EACH DIRECTION and to Taupo is 3 and a half hours in EACH direction.
I can't think of any novice rider, who could manage that!!!
If they were coming from Whangerei, then 2 hours, 45 minutes to Hampton Downs,each way, and over FIVE HOURS in each direction to Taupo Motorsport Park.

And then you say that not enough people are taking up the offer of "training" on a track.
Tricia1000
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA

[quickbuck]

I want to do the skilled rider/experienced course, but the first one available is in April. (Somewhere in Auckland). I can't book till I know where abouts the venue will be. Surely, with the huge numbers of riders that you should be putting through, then one course a month, won't really get enough people through.
The web page tells me that the first course suited to my needs (Experienced Rider) is 6th April 2013.

This appears to be the first Road riding course for experienced riders.
I did see a course on 2nd March for Experienced Riders, but it is being held at Taupo Motorsport Park……… Hmmmm a 4+ hour ride each way for me plus a full day riding!!!, I don't think that even my extended concentration abilities (Not to mention needing an Iron Butt) could cope with this!! BUT I DON'T WANT TO LEARN TO RIDE AT A TRACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also, if I was living in Northland, would I have to ride 6 or so hours in each direction to avail of even the most basic course you offer?

With regard to the "i" endorsement, the Auckland motorcycle instructors did not get their "I" endorsement as a follow on from a car endorsement. When I got mine, I only wanted the "I" endorsement for class 6 (m/c). I can think of at least 4 Auckland Instructors who applied for the ACC subsidisation, and you state in your earlier post, that MOST of the Instructors are "I" endorsed. This means that some aren't. Does ACC know this?? Do the students know this???
Road riding, and dealing with the hazards as they come along, is completely different to everyone riding in the same direction....
Any more info on this, would be much appreciated.
Tricia1000
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA

Hi Trish,
That is a lot for me to answer, and to be totally honest you are best to e-mail Karel through the web site as some of your issues I can not answer.

Simply put re the I endorsement, you are correct, not all of the people at ProRider have it yet.

Some of us who help out in limited capacity do not have it. ACC do indeed know this. The students are advised of this in the intro.

As for the course you want to do, well I am sorry, but EVERYBODY starts at level 1.


Level 2 covers Hazards

Level 3 is for students who have done the first 2 levels and want to take their skills further...

As for travaling to Taupo, I'm sorry, but NZ isn't that big, and they do have accomidation there...
I travel up and back in a day, and I am as far away.