ACC training providers announced

[FJRider]

And I dunno re: the bridge. I think I did that after a week, so cant imagine not doing it for months! but I'm in no way a natural and a lot fazes me so.. I don't get it I guess.

Confidence does wonders ... as does risk assessment. Your progress from the time the L plate was bolted on the GN has been rapid. (Remember the speed some "milestones" were ticked .. ???)

OVER confidence can be a bigger problem (for a learner) ...

Unfamiliar problems faze all people ... and simple motorcycle problems to the inexperienced do seem insurmountable at times.

[Movistar]

You mean they have no idea what motorcycle injuries are being sustained in accidents. Or how they happened ... ??? AND ... no records (as opposed to statistics) to prove it ...

Or is it that "Actual motorcyclists" are not having accidents ... (the wannabe motorcyclists maybe)

Perhaps ... it is YOU that joined the "Real World" ... and saw how motorcyclists are injuring themselves ...

It is the motorcycle injuries that caused the ACC levy increase ... not the death rate.

I'm not quite sure I get what angle you're taking, but yes, records are sceptical, and can be interpreted in as many different ways as you like.
Agreed, recovery from injury is what costs the money. But I'm sure the prevention of accidents/incidents, or at least a decrease in the amount of accidents/incidents is the overall goal, that will inherently lead to less recovery from injury.
My main point is how do ACC propose to do that with the new structure they have implemented?

[FJRider]

I'm not quite sure I get what angle you're taking, but yes, records are sceptical, and can be interpreted in as many different ways as you like.
Agreed, recovery from injury is what costs the money. But I'm sure the prevention of accidents/incidents, or at least a decrease in the amount of accidents/incidents is the overall goal, that will inherently lead to less recovery from injury.
My main point is how do ACC propose to do that with the new structure they have implemented?

You don't know what angle .. (etc) ???

ACC have medical records of all motorcycle injury accidents reported ... which doctors have to provide to ACC after the injuries are treated by the doctors. (who then claim costs from ACC)
ACC will have records showing ongoing (or any) compensation payments to those (supposedly) injured in "motorcycle" accidents. So they SHOULD have a better understanding where and when motorcyclists are injured than most of us.

If their records are incorrect ... it would be due to incorrect reporting of accidents. Hardly the fault then ... of ACC "getting it wrong" surely ... ??

If records are "skeptical" ... it would be because of incorrect/false claims as to actual cause of the accident. Not the fault of ACC as such then.

[Movistar]

You don't know what angle .. (etc) ???

ACC have medical records of all motorcycle injury accidents reported ... which doctors have to provide to ACC after the injuries are treated by the doctors. (who then claim costs from ACC)
ACC will have records showing ongoing (or any) compensation payments to those (supposedly) injured in "motorcycle" accidents. So they SHOULD have a better understanding where and when motorcyclists are injured than most of us.

If their records are incorrect ... it would be due to incorrect reporting of accidents. Hardly the fault then ... of ACC "getting it wrong" surely ... ??

If records are "skeptical" ... it would be because of incorrect/false claims as to actual cause of the accident. Not the fault of ACC as such then.

Fair enough, I get that.
But would it not be a better use of resources to try and prevent the amount of claims from taking place?
Lets face it, we need ACC or something similar (that's a whole other argument!) and if they need to increase our registration fees to cover the cost of recovery, fine. Providing all the claims are legitimate and are occuring from road accidents.

But how about giving something back that is worthwhile.

For instance, if you attend an approved training day, you get reduced registration for a year. Yes, I know this is easy in principal but difficult in application, but it is achievable if you think it through. That's one suggestion, I'm sure there are many more.

It makes more riders contemplate training, and you get a kickback from attending. Some may even learn something...

I know it seems like I'm bagging ACC, but in reality it is more the thought process, or lack thereof that frustrates me.
The beauty of a large organisational structure.

[FJRider]

Fair enough, I get that.
But would it not be a better use of resources to try and prevent the amount of claims from taking place?

You mean rider training covering the issues that most of the injuries are caused by .. ???

Lets face it, we need ACC or something similar (that's a whole other argument!) and if they need to increase our registration fees to cover the cost of recovery, fine. Providing all the claims are legitimate and are occuring from road accidents.

But how about giving something back that is worthwhile.

mmmmmmm

Who do you propose gives back. Us ... or ACC .. ??? Accurate reporting needed as I said ...

For instance, if you attend an approved training day, you get reduced registration for a year. Yes, I know this is easy in principal but difficult in application, but it is achievable if you think it through. That's one suggestion, I'm sure there are many more.

People seldom learn from courses that they HAVE to attend. Be it for the purpose of safety or saving money. User pays ... do the course and your life (or some blood) may be saved.

You decide if it is worth the expense ...

It makes more riders contemplate training, and you get a kickback from attending. Some may even learn something...

See above ...

I know it seems like I'm bagging ACC, but in reality it is more the thought process, or lack thereof that frustrates me.
The beauty of a large organisational structure.

And the thought processes of some frustrate ME too ...

[Movistar]

You mean rider training covering the issues that most of the injuries are caused by .. ???



mmmmmmm

Who do you propose gives back. Us ... or ACC .. ??? Accurate reporting needed as I said ...



People seldom learn from courses that they HAVE to attend. Be it for the purpose of safety or saving money. User pays ... do the course and your life (or some blood) may be saved.

You decide if it is worth the expense ...



See above ...



And the thought processes of some frustrate ME too ...

Point 1 - Yes.
Point 2 - Us. We are paying a huge amount of registration fee so it would be nice to get some back.
Point 3 - Some training is better than no training at all. No one is being forced into attending. It's a matter of choice.
Point 4 - See above.
Point 5 - Ditto.

[nzspokes]

Problem is, ACC had already earmarked these providers before any other tenders were considered, and little consultation was given to the delivery structure. Go to http://www.rideforever.co.nz/training/ and book yourself in - see what kind of response you get (apart from an automated one), if any.

ACC really have no idea what is going on in the real world. Why not consult some actual motorcyclists to see what training would be relevant and how it should be delivered?

And what has happened with MOTONZ? Gareth Morgan is no longer chair (too busy hunting cats) and lets face it, this whole concept was put in place to dull the uproar of increased registration fees to an audible murmour. $30 from our registration goes to them (Motorcycle Safety Levy) to administer safety on our behalf - is this really still happening? Personally, I've had one update from them in the last few months regarding projects that are being undertaken, but once again, are they consulting the people that actually are paying for their existance?

Interesting to see South Island people get the proper course. Aucklanders have to go to the race track.

Its a shame such a good opportunity has been lost.

[Maha]

Its a shame this opportunity has been lost.

Its a shame such a good opportunity has been lost.

Has the opportunity things been found yet?

[FJRider]

Point 1 - Yes.
Point 2 - Us. We are paying a huge amount of registration fee so it would be nice to get some back.
Point 3 - Some training is better than no training at all. No one is being forced into attending. It's a matter of choice.
Point 4 - See above.
Point 5 - Ditto.

Point 1. Do you not believe ACC intend to provide courses that cover those issues .. ??

Point 2. A huge number of motorcycle riders are claiming compensation for injuries received while riding. Some of those will be for the rest of their lives. One of those is a Harley Rider that featured in the news recently ... for/after crashing while fleeing from Police. He was too badly injured to be charged by the Police.
Those that need it ... get it. If you don't need it ... why should you get some back, just because you want it .. ??
The Registration fee is small. The ACC levy included in the fee is due to the high likelyhood of us injuring ourselves. The high number of non road registered motorcycle accidents included in ACC statistics ... is not helping our cause either.

Point 3. To get a few months off their restricted license time ... would "encourage" attendance at such courses ... or for a reduction in insurance fees ....

Point 4. All the rider training courses being run aren't worth a dam ... if people can't or wont pay for the courses ...

Point 5. The attitude of some ... as to the value those courses would be to them ... needs to change.

[Blackbird]

Interesting to see South Island people get the proper course. Aucklanders have to go to the race track.

Its a shame such a good opportunity has been lost.

Hmmmm.... Are we judging mainly on price? Track-based training does have value, but it falls short on roadcraft - improving situational awareness on real roads is such an important part of raising survival skills. Whilst you might pay over $400 for an advanced roadcraft course from, for example, Philip McDaid or Tricia O'Connor in Auckland, you get one on one tuition for the day specifically aimed at improving your personal skill set. Guess it's a question of what you're prepared to pay for value and what skills you want to work on.

[nzspokes]

Hmmmm.... Are we judging mainly on price? Track-based training does have value, but it falls short on roadcraft - improving situational awareness on real roads is such an important part of raising survival skills. Whilst you might pay over $400 for an advanced roadcraft course from, for example, Philip McDaid or Tricia O'Connor in Auckland, you get one on one tuition for the day specifically aimed at improving your personal skill set. Guess it's a question of what you're prepared to pay for value and what skills you want to work on.

I would not recommend sending new or returning riders to Taupo to do a track course from Auckland. Yes price will be a big issue for people that need this. Cost of getting there, accomodation etc makes it expensive.

Where is if one of the other proffessional coaches can manage to run there courses in Auckland.

[Tricia1000]

80% of EACH "ACC subsidised" course, MUST TAKE PLACE ON THE ROAD!!!
So, the majority will be on the road.
the crap I was told before about needing to start at the bottom level, to work my way up, is crap!! We are all free to choose whichever course we wish to do.
It's the distance required to travel to access these courses, that I have the biggest issue with.

Tricia1000
RoADA (Dip)
Consultant to NZTA

Interesting to see South Island people get the proper course. Aucklanders have to go to the race track.

Its a shame such a good opportunity has been lost.

[Blackbird]

That's partially the point I'm making. There are trainers in the Auckland area who have a huge reputation for building real life roadcraft skills. Their one on one training will naturally cost a bit more than the subsidised skills, but may well be cheaper when you've factored in travelling and accommodation costs. The quality of their training is also based on reputable measurable standards. All I'm saying is that there are other options, it's a question of how much you're prepared to pay or looking at it another way, how much you value your life.

[Movistar]

Point 1. Do you not believe ACC intend to provide courses that cover those issues .. ??

I think the intention is there, I'm still not convinced of the execution of the courses...

Point 2. A huge number of motorcycle riders are claiming compensation for injuries received while riding. Some of those will be for the rest of their lives. One of those is a Harley Rider that featured in the news recently ... for/after crashing while fleeing from Police. He was too badly injured to be charged by the Police.
Those that need it ... get it. If you don't need it ... why should you get some back, just because you want it .. ??
The Registration fee is small. The ACC levy included in the fee is due to the high likelyhood of us injuring ourselves. The high number of non road registered motorcycle accidents included in ACC statistics ... is not helping our cause either.

Point 3. To get a few months off their restricted license time ... would "encourage" attendance at such courses ... or for a reduction in insurance fees ....

Point 4. All the rider training courses being run aren't worth a dam ... if people can't or wont pay for the courses ...

Point 5. The attitude of some ... as to the value those courses would be to them ... needs to change.

Agreed.

The ACC levy included in the fee is due to the high likelyhood of us injuring ourselves. The high number of non road registered motorcycle accidents included in ACC statistics ... is not helping our cause either.

Exactly.

[nzspokes]

That's partially the point I'm making. There are trainers in the Auckland area who have a huge reputation for building real life roadcraft skills. Their one on one training will naturally cost a bit more than the subsidised skills, but may well be cheaper when you've factored in travelling and accommodation costs. The quality of their training is also based on reputable measurable standards. All I'm saying is that there are other options, it's a question of how much you're prepared to pay or looking at it another way, how much you value your life.

Sorry, I missunderstood what you were saying. Yes i would agree on the other trainers. I have done a couple from other providers and they have been very good.

My concern is new and returning riders not getting quality training.