KTM 1290 Superduke R

**Glowerss** · 7th October 2013, 12:34

Originally Posted by Ocean1

Me too. After the swelling went down a bit from the thrashing 'er indoors would give me.

I like the RC8 style exhaust, could never understand hanging the plumbing out in the breeze like that.

Noise and emission regulations at a guess. The prototype was fkn LOUD. Sounded amazing, but I'm guessing probably didn't meet nanny state standards

**Drew** · 7th October 2013, 14:55

Originally Posted by Ocean1

Me too. After the swelling went down a bit from the thrashing 'er indoors would give me.

I like the RC8 style exhaust, could never understand hanging the plumbing out in the breeze like that.

Because nomatter what that ballbag Eric Buell says, it's better for engine tuning to have a bit more midpipe.

Even the GP bikes run the pipes up the side, that should probably give some clue that it's the best way to do things.

**Ocean1** · 7th October 2013, 16:02

Originally Posted by Glowerss

Noise and emission regulations at a guess. The prototype was fkn LOUD. Sounded amazing, but I'm guessing probably didn't meet nanny state standards

Yet, as I said the RC8 manages essentially the same engine, fully road compliant, (and in fact quite mellow) with an underslung zorst.

Originally Posted by Drew

Because nomatter what that ballbag Eric Buell says, it's better for engine tuning to have a bit more midpipe.

Even the GP bikes run the pipes up the side, that should probably give some clue that it's the best way to do things.

Yeah, that'd make sense, if say an XB12 had less effective resonant pipe length than, say an RF900. It doesn't.

See, the way everyone else does shit is NEVER the best way. Not ever. They just don't know any better until some know-nothin' ballbag shows them how.

Buell wern't the first to do it, by the way. But it's interesting to see all the market-driven cookie cutter sprotsbikes following suite for no better reason than the fact that it sells bikes.

**Drew** · 7th October 2013, 16:32

Originally Posted by Ocean1

Yeah, that'd make sense, if say an XB12 had less effective resonant pipe length than, say an RF900. It doesn't.

So, the Buell is making the same power per cube, as an RF? Not a chance, even if you wanna use the CR for comparison.

Originally Posted by Ocean1

See, the way everyone else does shit is NEVER the best way. Not ever. They just don't know any better until some know-nothin' ballbag shows them how.

Really, because both Yamaha and Honda use differnt length and diameter pipe for different tracks and tunes. Pretty confident they've tried to go as short as possible, if for nothing but weight saving.

Originally Posted by Ocean1

Buell wern't the first to do it, by the way. But it's interesting to see all the market-driven cookie cutter sprotsbikes following suite for no better reason than the fact that it sells bikes.

Which Japanese manufacturer is making sports bikes with 10 kilo, gigantic heat boxes under the sump?

**nzspokes** · 7th October 2013, 16:48

Originally Posted by Ocean1

Buell wern't the first to do it, by the way. But it's interesting to see all the market-driven cookie cutter sprotsbikes following suite for no better reason than the fact that it sells bikes.

That would be why there not in business anymore.

**Ocean1** · 7th October 2013, 19:28

Originally Posted by Drew

So, the Buell is making the same power per cube, as an RF? Not a chance, even if you wanna use the CR for comparison.

Dunno, haven't checked.... You peeked didn't ya?

The RF by a whisker.

Can I do one now? Does the RF make the same torque at 40% revs as it does at 80%?

Hey, this is fun. What's the RF's HP/KG?

But none of that has much to do with pipe lengths, or how best to package it to optimise mass, does it? What I meant is that although it might look like a conventional rig has more pipe length than an under-frame zorst it's not safe to bet on it, both Buell and Ducati have systems with multi-pass pipes down there, probably others too. Buell's most basic version changes lengths to match revs.

Originally Posted by Drew

Really, because both Yamaha and Honda use differnt length and diameter pipe for different tracks and tunes. Pretty confident they've tried to go as short as possible, if for nothing but weight saving.

I don't doubt it. And I wasn't suggesting that they should copy a system from a road bike. Just that there's a better way to do their zorsts. There's better ways to do everything, dude, and if you doubt that then come back in 5 years and show me how Yamaha and Honda zorsts are exactly the same as they are now.

Progress. Can't beat it.

Originally Posted by Drew

Which Japanese manufacturer is making sports bikes with 10 kilo, gigantic heat boxes under the sump?

What, your google all broke? There's no under-framed Japanese bike zorsts? They're all hanging 10 kilo gigantic heat boxes off the side of their machines?

Could've sworn there was a Kwaka around here a while ago...

I guess the point I was trying to make, mate is that almost every design element common amongst production bikes of a couple of decades ago were sub-optimal. So are today's. Which is why it's never safe to laugh at the weird shit, eh?

**Ocean1** · 7th October 2013, 19:33

Originally Posted by nzspokes

That would be why there not in business anymore.

Well they certainly failed to make bikes like those the Japanese and Europeans were selling.

But that's not why they're not in business anymore.

**AllanB** · 7th October 2013, 20:18

Meh Buell ...... so yesterday.

Lots of ideas ............ some good ..... some......... A bit of an obsessive.

That front braking system really took off - if there was a big advantage they would be on the GP bikes.

The KTM's wheels are not like the prototype due to production costs - too expensive to do all that masking for a production bike. They are most likely saving them for the limited edition 'factory' version. It will also have a Avro titanium exhaust system ....
Maybe carbon fibre wheels ..... to make it lighter!

**Drew** · 8th October 2013, 05:31

Originally Posted by Ocean1

Well they certainly failed to make bikes like those the Japanese and Europeans were selling.

But that's not why they're not in business anymore.

Buell shutting down seems to have been due to Harley management more than not making a profit.

I understand that there are better ways to do nearly everything. I just think that when it comes to exhaust, what the GP bikes have is best suited to current engine designs.

**Ocean1** · 8th October 2013, 07:25

Originally Posted by Drew

Buell shutting down seems to have been due to Harley management more than not making a profit.

Yeah. There's an old saying: keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. The yanks invented the strategy of buying into your competition and then shutting them down. They shouldn't have bothered, Buell was never going to make bikes to compete with road king sales.

Originally Posted by Drew

I understand that there are better ways to do nearly everything. I just think that when it comes to exhaust, what the GP bikes have is best suited to current engine designs.

I'd say current GP exhaust designs are best suited to GP bikes under the current rules, given current budgets.

Which isn't really the same thing as the best design for a sprotsbike compliant to a completely different set of rules, with the design posibilities mass production facilities make possible.

I'm not blowing Buell's trumpet. Much. He did some good work, and made some poor choices. But the thing is he didn't simply copy everyone else's designs, which are mostly driven by the marketing requirement to look like a GP bike and be as cheap to make as possible. When it comes to exhausts, given current engine designs with cartrige gearboxes, long swingarms and higher mass centers I think the best place for an exhaust is in that space available under the sump between the wheels.

The new superduke uses that space well, I just like their first effort better.

PS: you really shoulda taken the CR for a wee pootle while I still had it, mate, that engine is in my book best in class.

In spite of the fucking ugly muffler.