So, are you a lifeboat builder?

[Genestho]

Not quite right. "Peak" relates to the recoverable reserves, and isn't only relevant to oil (watch the video). In the case of all resources there is a point at which the cost (and energy) required to recover them overtakes the value of the extracted resource.

Fair point, I can well imagine it's not limited to oil, only watched the first 5? minutes and turned it off..just something in there made me question this peak oil mass debate.

I suppose I get annoyed with all of the conflicting information used to sell differing points of view and contrary information I've read, so this is me questioning everything and believing nothing.

[mashman]

Oh and BTW I don't think we are in any more trouble than we have been before.

So we can all chillax until it does happen? You believe that it will never happen and therefore it needn't be prepared for?

[mashman]

Fair point, I can well imagine it's not limited to oil, only watched the first 5? minutes and turned it off..just something in there made me question this peak oil mass debate.

I suppose I get annoyed with all of the conflicting information used to sell differing points of view and contrary information I've read, so this is me questioning everything and believing nothing.

It's not just about peak oil. Peak oil will happen one day, of that there is no doubt. It may be closer than we think.

[Genestho]

Mmmm again, there is so much mis-information regarding oil supplies that we need to be careful which version we're falling for: Middle Eastern, American, Media, Oil companies or the Greenies, all have an agenda.

Of course - you would think a supply of anything as a natural resource would be finite, however the measurement yardstick for [oil] is not accurate, depending on whose media and information you absorb. I'm quite over believing anything from anyone, anywhere, anymore.

Bit like Al Gore's attempt at brainwashing, what a flippin' farce.

All I know is my personal revolution will hopefully see me consume less, recycle more, buy locally, eat cleaner. That's the only tangible truth, I really can believe in.

[Akzle]

Up off the beach in Northland still looks like me
Or in Kaitaia and make day trips to the different beaches, instead of residing specifically at one beach.

piss off! there's more land south (waikato) for all you bloody aucklanders to disperse through. come the 'geddon, the first thing i'm going to be doing is putting down the harbour bridges. then firebombing the north shore.
AUCKLANDERS NOT WELCOME IN NORTHLAND. (unless you bring guns, beer and bait)

[mashman]

Mmmm again, there is so much mis-information regarding oil supplies that we need to be careful which version we're falling for: Middle Eastern, American, Media, Oil companies or the Greenies, all have an agenda.

Of course - you would think a supply of anything as a natural resource would be finite, however the measurement yardstick for [oil] is not accurate, depending on whose media and information you absorb. I'm quite over believing anything from anyone, anywhere, anymore.

Bit like Al Gore's attempt at brainwashing, what a flippin' farce.

All I know is my personal revolution will hopefully see me consume less, recycle more, buy locally, eat cleaner. That's the only tangible truth, I really can believe in.

I agree with most of that. Although it doesn't matter what yardstick you use, oil will run out or at least will get to a point where it can't service all of our "needs" and then all hell will break loose. I'd rather use it "properly" instead of wasting it on crap. You doing your bit is all fine and well, but if everyone does their bit society will all but collapse as the jobs fuelled by consumerism vanish.

[Naki Rat]

I agree with most of that. Although it doesn't matter what yardstick you use, oil will run out or at least will get to a point where it can't service all of our "needs" and then all hell will break loose. I'd rather use it "properly" instead of wasting it on crap. You doing your bit is all fine and well, but if everyone does their bit society will all but collapse as the jobs fuelled by consumerism vanish.

The claims, including those in 'Collapse', that each calorie of food we eat takes many more (5-10?) calories of energy derived largely from oil to produce would suggest "consumerism" should include what we eat. Sure these figures are based on the US model but I would suggest that New Zealand's increasingly industrialised and freight reliant food production and importation networks have similar shortcomings to those of North America.

[huff3r]

I thought we ran out of oil in the 80s?

[mashman]

The claims, including those in 'Collapse', that each calorie of food we eat takes many more (5-10?) calories of energy derived largely from oil to produce would suggest "consumerism" should include what we eat. Sure these figures are based on the US model but I would suggest that New Zealand's increasingly industrialised and freight reliant food production and importation networks have similar shortcomings to those of North America.

I heard him say that and wasn't overly surprised. I found this a while ago



and it sums it all up quite nicely. You're right about our reliance of freight reliant food and as I keep mentioning to the neighbours, and others, if we only had 4 or 5 people per street who would/could turn all of our gardens into veggie patches, it would mitigate that reliance. Bummer being that they'd need to be paid and would need money for materials. Even going to the tip and sourcing materials would cost and unfortunately not may in the street could afford such a scheme.

I was a great vid and I'll post that on my site when I next do an update. He sums it all up quite nicely and after 30 years of watching and predicting I see no real reason to doubt his findings. The timescales may be out, but that future is most definitely in the mail. I giggled when he started to have a cry, not through the poking of fun, but more because I do exactly the same thing when getting into the subject. It's frustrating to see such a waste and know what's on the horizon, along with knowing that our leadership have no intention of doing anything about it. Beer really doesn't the either .

[Brian d marge]

Reminds me of a favourite poem....
In a nut shell,,if we don't start thinking sustainable and whatever. It will screw things up...doesn't matter how why and when ,,,it just will
Doesn't mean we have to be tree hugging hippies just means a bit more responsibility....
But then as Isaiah Berlin pointed in his famous paper, a poor mans want and needs are different from the the man who has no want
Anyway
And did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England's mountains green?
And was the holy Lamb of God
On England's pleasant pastures seen?

And did the Countenance Divine
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here
Among these dark satanic mills?

Bring me my bow of burning gold!
Bring me my arrows of desire!
Bring me my spear! O clouds, unfold!
Bring me my chariot of fire!

I will not cease from mental fight,
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand,
Till we have built Jerusalem
In England's green and pleasant land.

Stephen

[Naki Rat]

....... I giggled when he started to have a cry, not through the poking of fun, but more because I do exactly the same thing when getting into the subject. It's frustrating to see such a waste and know what's on the horizon, along with knowing that our leadership have no intention of doing anything about it......

The other contributing factor to his 'meltdown' was that relationshipwise he is alone with his dog as mentioned earlier in the video, and at that point of the interview he was promoting the strength of family and community. Not my observation but one mentioned in the IMDb reviews of the movie, which rates it 7.7/10

One of the favourite quips of his I heard though was that if a bear attacks the campsite you don't have to be able to run faster than the bear, just faster than the slowest camper

[mashman]

The other contributing factor to his 'meltdown' was that relationshipwise he is alone with his dog as mentioned earlier in the video, and at that point of the interview he was promoting the strength of family and community. Not my observation but one mentioned in the IMDb reviews of the movie, which rates it 7.7/10

One of the favourite quips of his I heard though was that if a bear attacks the campsite you don't have to be able to run faster than the bear, just faster than the slowest camper

I guess I have a different take on that. Perhaps he was weeping for a life that he could have had, which in itself speaks volumes that he couldn't have it because he needed to follow his path so to speak. Although I reckon he was concerned with what is to come, what has been lost and how we're organised. Possibly wrong like, but I can understand why he wouldn't be weeping for himself. Either way, it still doesn't detract from the fact that that's the way we're heading and at a rapid rate of descent. We won't be told what's going on, it'll just crash. I'd like to build Ark NZ

Heh... it was funny... right up until you realise that the camp will eventually run out of people. Then you need to be able to outrun the bear .

[Genestho]

I agree with most of that. Although it doesn't matter what yardstick you use, oil will run out or at least will get to a point where it can't service all of our "needs" and then all hell will break loose. I'd rather use it "properly" instead of wasting it on crap. You doing your bit is all fine and well, but if everyone does their bit society will all but collapse as the jobs fuelled by consumerism vanish.

Sure, as I wrote in my last post, one would expect the supply to be finite, but exactly where that end is, we don't know.

I suspect we haven't peaked for what I consider pretty obvious reasons. Perhaps we're on different wavelengths - again. I realise my practicality won't fit the doomsday theory..

Maybe this too is what you mean by "proper" petroleum based products: Up until very recently - we had local manufacturers in New Zealand making sustainable/quality products that were used once in one lifetime - we were sustainable(er), that, amongst other things is where (idealistically) we need to go back to.
I do believe we can make that happen again, it's just about acceptance which of course you can't force down anyone's neck.

This consumerism of "needs - wants" is mostly a very modern beasty, it accelerated in my lifetime and can most definately swing back again, in my lifetime.

A lot of people are becoming aware how messy this future is looking let's add the shadow of recession to people's fears.

I can see this year, a lot of people I didn't expect to, making basic changes to how they live.. time will tell.

[mashman]

Sure, as I wrote in my last post, one would expect the supply to be finite, but exactly where that end is, we don't know.

I suspect we haven't peaked for what I consider pretty obvious reasons. Perhaps we're on different wavelengths - again. I realise my practicality won't fit the doomsday theory..

Maybe this too is what you mean by "proper" petroleum based products: Up until very recently - we had local manufacturers in New Zealand making sustainable/quality products that were used once in one lifetime - we were sustainable(er), that, amongst other things is where (idealistically) we need to go back to.
I do believe we can make that happen again, it's just about acceptance which of course you can't force down anyone's neck.

This consumerism of "needs - wants" is mostly a very modern beasty, it accelerated in my lifetime and can most definately swing back again, in my lifetime.

A lot of people are becoming aware how messy this future is looking let's add the shadow of recession to people's fears.

I can see this year, a lot of people I didn't expect to, making basic changes to how they live.. time will tell.

Why does the knowledge of where "the end" is matter? Doomsday is only a theory? It may not be in the next 100 years, 200, 500, but it will come a lot sooner than it needs to if we don't "manage" the slow down. It will crash and it will be messy. The tin foil hat brigade would probably say that there are those who know exactly when doomsday will be, or at least the start (if it hasn't started already). In this instance I'll happily don the tin foil hat as I wouldn't put anything past those who are in power to protect their position. I care not how that statement will be met. To that end where "the end" is doesn't concern me, the fact that we just aren't ready for it does. No doomsday we're fucked we're fucked the oil is falling. Just a concern for an ever deteriorating state of society and the needless waste of useful resources. Some day the oil will start to run out, that is a fact.

Why does it have to be fear that drives us? Why can't it be acceptance, mitigation and action? I expect my leaders to be using the latter as their guiding star, not the former. I'm with you that it can change in our lifetimes, but in my darker moments I do wonder how many people would prefer to watch the whole thing go bang before they choose to do anything.