Ferry stike before Tri Series Round 1

[Robert Taylor]

Well it's the time that the ferry co makes most of its money so it's the obvious time to withdraw your labour.

Do you get a morning tea break at work ?
Do you get tea/coffee sugar supplied ?
Do you get more than 10 minutes for lunch ?
If you get sacked can you appeal to somebody ?
Does your workplace have a Health and Safety programme ?
Just a short list of some of the benefits that people take for granted in NZ - They were all won HARD by union members.
Read some of the history of the labour movement in NZ and see how badly workers were fucked over by (mostly foreign owned) companies.
Workers rights in NZ are being eroded at an alarming rate and unions are one of the few ways to stop it.

No I dont get a tea break

Lunch is about 10 minutes, often less and Im doing paperwork while eating

I work longer hours than is considered either sane or safe for my health. Id likely earn more money and with a whole load less stress if I joined the communist brotherhood on the Cook Strait Ferries

Ive often thought of sacking myself

I often have to test ride motorcycles amongst morons in cars who have no idea you are there.

Im an employer and I have less rights than my employees, who incidentally I treat very well.



These Cook Strait Ferry employees have been a militant and overpaid bunch for decades. A ballsy Government like Sid Hollands successful administration in the 50s would call the navy in to run the ferries.

[Howie]

You are not really expecting INFORMED opinion are you ? This is KiwiBiker

True. I did forget where I was for a while.

Would this so-called homework demonstrate that the agreement has been under negotiation for some time?
Would it show that in fact the union's chief strategy from the outset has been a public Holliday strike?

The contract being negotiated expired in February 2012 My understanding is that a union(s) can initiate bargaining 90 days before a contract expires and the Employer 60 days before the current one expires. (This is currently being changed in Legislation so both parties have the same timeframe, and I'm not sure if it has been passed yet) At the moment there is a responsibility on both parties to conclude the bargaining (that is also being changed)

Once a collective Employment contract has expired the terms and conditions of it stay in place for a year, after a year that condition runs out and everyone employed under that contract then has to negotiate a individual employment contract.

I know that the unions involved took a settlement back to those on the contract, and the union members rejected it ( I don't know the full details of what was in it or why they rejected it, although I have heard some of reasons through the grapevine.

Is there any member of the paying public that's so overwhelmed by the employee's performance that they'd be happy to pay more?

I hope most of the public are very happy with the performance of the people covered by the contract. As if they aren't the ferry might be in trouble (look up who the AMEA are(one of the "unions involved).

[Robert Taylor]

Politics YUK, But Muldoon was the best Prime Minister I have ever seen in this country

He did stuff up the economy because actually he was a socialist, but I did like his take no prisoners style. He absolutely roasted television interviewers and it would be great to again see politicians in the same vein. No PC BS. Memorable about him was a comment he made to Mat Rata in Parliament, which went to the effect ''The best three years of Mats life were those he spent in the third form''

[Robert Taylor]

Muldoon was a fascist bully. His economic policies were rooted in the 1950's (arguably earlier), he refused or failed to acknowledge the major global changes happening during his tenure (does no one remember the government mandated fixed exchange rates, the inability bo buy cars or bikes except with export dollars, the oppressive control over almost every aspect of society, the white, middle class oppression? ) and then the cunt got pissed one night, called a Schnapps election and lost but then didnt adhere to constitutional convention and tried (and nearly succeeded to bankrupt the country?

Fuck I remember that shit. The man was a prick, and his political legacy is appalling. Rose tinted hi res backwards facing glasses to the contrary.

Don't get me wrong, all politicians are by definition loathsome, but he is the the most loathsome of them all.




flamewar in 3,2, 1 ............

No, Helen Clark was the most loathsome, followed by Norman Kirk

[Robert Taylor]

I have to agree with Wharfys sentiments about ( casino ) bankers and stockbrokers. These guys run on speculation and are by nature very greedy, but so are these Cook Strait ferry employees. They have the same human weaknesses. They have been at this nonsense for decades and the way they go about it doesnt exactly endear them to the NZ public at large.
Sure there are employers out there that are shockers, but there are just as many employees that are just a waste of space. There is an unfortunate legacy from the 70s or so when we imported a load of militant whinging poms. But then there are also hard workers such as Merv on this forum.
Like others I too lived in the UK and witnessed the attitudes over there. In the 70s the country was held to ransom by the unions and work attitude and ethics were so poor that they produced TERRIBLE motor cars such as the Morris Marina, Austin landcrabs etc. Governments needed to grow some balls to deal with these lazy and militant communist unionists and to that end Maggie came along at the right time. The Conservative Government had the country on a pretty sound footing then along came Tony Blair and his spin, with that absolute disasater of a chancellor Gordon Brown in tow with him. Spend, spend spend, spend , spend. Oh, and lets import a million Eastern Europeans who will be more likely to vote Labour if we give them handouts. The crap that they are in now is ten times worse than it should have been before the economic recession came along.
David Cameron has the mother of all toxic legacies to deal with and he is dealing this weekend with the bureaucrats in Brussels who want to raise the levies imposed on member states. He is going to veto it.
Its like the fattest kid in the classroom ( The European Union political parasites ) being given an ice cream and all the skinny kids having to pay for it.
Greed is rife AT ALL LEVELS of society.

[Billy]

No I dont get a tea break

Lunch is about 10 minutes, often less and Im doing paperwork while eating

I work longer hours than is considered either sane or safe for my health. Id likely earn more money and with a whole load less stress if I joined the communist brotherhood on the Cook Strait Ferries

Ive often thought of sacking myself

I often have to test ride motorcycles amongst morons in cars who have no idea you are there.

Im an employer and I have less rights than my employees, who incidentally I treat very well.



These Cook Strait Ferry employees have been a militant and overpaid bunch for decades. A ballsy Government like Sid Hollands successful administration in the 50s would call the navy in to run the ferries.

Ditto,

Problem is all this softcock/PC bullshit brought in by Harry Clark and Stu,,Oops I mean Sue Bradford and its wormed its way into roadracing and no doubt every other social activity we as Kiwis partake in,Now if you try and raise the bar or constructively criticise new entrants to the sport,Its apparently slagging them off,Suck it homies,Somebody somewhere sometime has to tell them their no cutting the mustard instead of blowing smoke up their arses and convincing them their fast when they simply are not

[Dave-]

Engineering student.

80-100 up to 120 hours pw for 36 weeks a year, for 4 or 5 years, not only do I not get paid, I'm actually paying to be there, roughly $5 an hour.

I get breaks I guess, tak'em when I need'em some days through you've got 10 minutes to walk between lecture theatres which may take 11 minutes, other days you've got an hour to get 10 meters.

I wouldn't say the work is harder than what robbert or billy do, certainly not as physical, but your brain has to be running at 100% the whole time, and it's only 4 or 5 years, but each day is a long day, I find the clincher is the money, -$5 an hour, How many here would work for -$5 an hour for 4 or 5 years? (business start ups aside - if you take 4 or 5 years to start generating profit then something may have gone wrong)

The ferry staff I saw last weekend on bluebridge seemed pretty cherry, I saw one chick hanging out in the staff area obviously on a break, so the industry as a whole cant be too bad if 50% of it is this well off, compared to the maritime industry as a whole I wouldn't be complaining.

[SWERVE]

I have to agree with Wharfys sentiments about ( casino ) bankers and stockbrokers. These guys run on speculation and are by nature very greedy, but so are these Cook Strait ferry employees. They have the same human weaknesses. They have been at this nonsense for decades and the way they go about it doesnt exactly endear them to the NZ public at large.
Sure there are employers out there that are shockers, but there are just as many employees that are just a waste of space. There is an unfortunate legacy from the 70s or so when we imported a load of militant whinging poms. But then there are also hard workers such as Merv on this forum.
Like others I too lived in the UK and witnessed the attitudes over there. In the 70s the country was held to ransom by the unions and work attitude and ethics were so poor that they produced TERRIBLE motor cars such as the Morris Marina, Austin landcrabs etc. Governments needed to grow some balls to deal with these lazy and militant communist unionists and to that end Maggie came along at the right time. The Conservative Government had the country on a pretty sound footing then along came Tony Blair and his spin, with that absolute disasater of a chancellor Gordon Brown in tow with him. Spend, spend spend, spend , spend. Oh, and lets import a million Eastern Europeans who will be more likely to vote Labour if we give them handouts. The crap that they are in now is ten times worse than it should have been before the economic recession came along.
David Cameron has the mother of all toxic legacies to deal with and he is dealing this weekend with the bureaucrats in Brussels who want to raise the levies imposed on member states. He is going to veto it.
Its like the fattest kid in the classroom ( The European Union political parasites ) being given an ice cream and all the skinny kids having to pay for it.
Greed is rife AT ALL LEVELS of society.

So when do we see you name on the ballot paper Robert........... would pay to see you on parlimentary debate

[jellywrestler]

an ice cream

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ice cream

[SWERVE]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ice cream

Glad to see you are picking up on the KEY ISSUES
At least coming over on the Strait ferry means we get to you at a reasonable hour

[RDJ]

Have any of you bothered to actually look at what the dispute is about? Do you know what members of the crew the unions involved represent?
or would you rather just believe the propaganda machine that passes for media in NZ?

The timing is nothing to do with Holiday time!! it is to do with failure to negotiate a settlement, on a contract that has expired and needs to be renewed. and one of the few ways left a collective bargaining group in this country has of trying to get a company back to negotiating when an acceptable settlement hasn't been reached is to with draw there labour.

You can probably thank the pro employer labour relation laws that the current Goverment has put in place for this Action.

I would actually suggest you do your homework before mouthing off at the unions.

Yes I have looked at the unions' approach to this, as well as the employer's. Union members / workers got a problem with their employer? Screw the public to make your point. Not the smartest move but the only move in the union playbook. Of course it has a lot to do with holiday time - allows the unions to pile on the pressure by screwing more of the public during their holidays.

(The unions did win improvements back in the day - decades ago - they are still coasting on those "successes" for their members. The rest of us, paid for that. And are still paying for that with this type of entitlement attitude the unions bred into their membership.)

Having a ferry / car plus trailer booking on the weekend to pick up my bike but having to be back Sunday to start work 0700 Monday I have no choice but to either cancel out entirely or buy plane tickets to fly down to Chch and just ride, leaving the bike behind for another coupla months; I cannot afford to not be back at work. Thanks a lot, union people / sarc.

[wharfy]

Yes I have looked at the unions' approach to this, as well as the employer's. Union members / workers got a problem with their employer? Screw the public to make your point. Not the smartest move but the only move in the union playbook. Of course it has a lot to do with holiday time - allows the unions to pile on the pressure by screwing more of the public during their holidays.

(The unions did win improvements back in the day - decades ago - they are still coasting on those "successes" for their members. The rest of us, paid for that. And are still paying for that with this type of entitlement attitude the unions bred into their membership.)

Having a ferry / car plus trailer booking on the weekend to pick up my bike but having to be back Sunday to start work 0700 Monday I have no choice but to either cancel out entirely or buy plane tickets to fly down to Chch and just ride, leaving the bike behind for another coupla months; I cannot afford to not be back at work. Thanks a lot, union people / sarc.

Ummm... I think it is a bit more complex than that and a more important than making a point. They are trying to negotiate their terms and conditions. They are certainly NOT trying to "screw the public". Both sides know what is at stake, the employers are counting on the media and the general public blaming the unioin for any inconvienience. The union is well aware how hard it is to get support from the public, unfortunately industrial action is the only barganing leverage they have. The deck is stacked in favour of employers even though the people are highly skilled (deck officers and engineers). These people are responsible for the saftey and well being of passengers and fellow crew and the care and maintenance of a very expensive peice of kit. The officers could possibly be replaced by some cheaper more complient people to do the bidding of the company but then we could end up with a Rena scenario in Cook straight.
They get paid about the same as mid level IT specialists (not all off whom are as special as they get paid )
As I mentioned in an earlier post any benifits workers in NZ have were HARD won and employers are always trying to "claw back" terms and conditions and workers are alway trying improve them. In the current political environment workers have trouble just maintaining their present conditions. We have several generations of workers who think that their working conditions are given out of the goodness of the employers heart. If you think that read some history. The lot of merchant seamen for example has not always been a happy one, did you know that during the war if a merchant ship was sunk the sailors pay was stopped immediatly? On more than one occasion in NZ employers have hired thugs to intimidate striking workers and their families. Workers have died on the streets in NZ to gain the working conditions many now take for granted and are being constatntly erroded.

[wharfy]

No I dont get a tea break

Lunch is about 10 minutes, often less and Im doing paperwork while eating

I work longer hours than is considered either sane or safe for my health. Id likely earn more money and with a whole load less stress if I joined the communist brotherhood on the Cook Strait Ferries

Ive often thought of sacking myself

I often have to test ride motorcycles amongst morons in cars who have no idea you are there.

Im an employer and I have less rights than my employees, who incidentally I treat very well.



These Cook Strait Ferry employees have been a militant and overpaid bunch for decades. A ballsy Government like Sid Hollands successful administration in the 50s would call the navy in to run the ferries.

I wasn't going to reply to this, but I'm in sunny Nelson with no motorbike.

Robert you the RIGHT have lunch whenever you want and where ever you want, you can take two hours and go the finest resteraunt in New Plymouth, and have a bottle of wine with your lunch and put it on the company expense account. YOU can decide how much salary you want to draw. YOU can decide if you want to have a day off without having to ask anyones permission.
You could do that as often as the companies finances would stand it if you wanted.

Your protestant work ethic is comendable, but not to be confused with any legal compulsion to work your ring off

The RIGHTS workers have around health and safety, hours and pay are very limited in NZ, and as I have mentioned (several times in this thread now) HARD WON !

Oh yeah i'll be emailing you soon about fixing my forks

[Ocean1]

Oh yeah i'll be emailing you soon about fixing my forks

Can't. He'll be on an extended lunch that day.



See how that works, now?

[wharfy]

Can't. He'll be on an extended lunch that day.



See how that works, now?

I know how it works.