Two motorcyclists dead - Wanaka region

[FJRider]

I was one of them. Went north through the Lindis well before the incident in question, though.

I'm glad the thread title isn't three motorcyclists dead then ... a good thing it wasn't a blue Nissan then. (maybe her brother though )

[Paul in NZ]

This is getting serious...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8011...d-in-SH5-crash

Single bike accidents are bad enough

[Swoop]

With the "driving on the left" issue...

I noticed in Thailand that even though driving on the left hand side of the road, like we do here, the Thai drivers will use the lane furthest to the right on a multi-lane expressway.
Simply saying that it is people who arrive from a country that "drives on the other side" being a problem is a little erroneous.

We have shitty driving standards here.
Couple that with the fact that our police force doesn't give a crap about enforcing driving standards (running red lights, courtesy, tailgating, etc) unless there is pressure from above to "do something". The campaign for a weeks duration regarding cellphone use while driving, is a case in point.

Has anyone else noticed when Top Gear is out in the countryside reviewing a car, you occasionally see an arrow painted in the center of the lane which curves to the left as a simple reminder to do just that? A good wake-up call for all drivers, especially tourists.
The only signs I have seen here are those coming out of Auckland airport saying "remember to drive on the left".


I do like the idea of phamphlets being available on the aircraft arriving in NZ. It would be a start, but a multiple approoach to the entire problem involves all kiwi drivers as well as visitors to this country.

[BoristheBiter]

We have shitty driving standards here.
Couple that with the fact that our police force doesn't give a crap about enforcing driving standards (running red lights, courtesy, tailgating, etc) unless there is pressure from above to "do something". The campaign for a weeks duration regarding cellphone use while driving, is a case in point.

Has anyone else noticed when Top Gear is out in the countryside reviewing a car, you occasionally see an arrow painted in the center of the lane which curves to the left as a simple reminder to do just that? A good wake-up call for all drivers, especially tourists.
The only signs I have seen here are those coming out of Auckland airport saying "remember to drive on the left".


I do like the idea of phamphlets being available on the aircraft arriving in NZ. It would be a start, but a multiple approoach to the entire problem involves all kiwi drivers as well as visitors to this country.

As much as i agree that there isn't enough enforcement towards bad driving, it is one of those things you have to see to issue an infringement notice.
Also when I started to drive my mates told me how bad my driving was, some wouldn't get in the car, so I changed. Now it is just ignored or whined about on forums.
I will tell anyone if I think they are driving/riding like a dick and expect other to do the same with me.

There are arrows on the road in quite a few places.

[swbarnett]

thats the kiwi way, she'll be right mate.....etc etc, and if she's not right, oopps a daisy or two.

Not just the Kiwi way. This is true for all countries that recognise an international license.

[Berries]

Simply saying that it is people who arrive from a country that "drives on the other side" being a problem is a little erroneous.

And although there are plenty of assumptions in this thread it hasn't actually been mentioned as one of the reasons behind the crash either.

Has anyone else noticed when Top Gear is out in the countryside reviewing a car, you occasionally see an arrow painted in the center of the lane which curves to the left as a simple reminder to do just that? A good wake-up call for all drivers, especially tourists.

Those markings are the equivalent of the five yellow stripes we have here before a solid yellow no overtaking line, ie a warning of the restriction about to start. I'd agree though that they do unwittingly provide that subtle reminder to keep left.

[Banditbandit]

I'd agree though that they do unwittingly provide that subtle reminder to keep left.

Only on Kiwi Biker could large white arrows painted on the road be called "subtle" ..

[jasonu]

Some time ago, i went to the AA and gave them my german driver license. I got a NZ lisences in return. No questions asked, no driver lessons taken, no nothing zilch nada etc.

I asked the Lady if she was joking, and her answer was " Germans in have much stronger testing and licensing rules then we have here in NZ, and the law states that you can just have your license replaced, so here you go stop bothering me".

Note: I have never driven a car in NZ (still haven't).
I went to do my basic handling skill test, did my L and was told I was now legal to ride on the road on a bike. WTF i ask, you are sure about that? and again i was told to just accept how stuff is done in NZ and enjoy my riding.

I then took a riding course (i do like to stay alive), and the very first thing i did, after the little voice in my ear told me to turn right.........end up on the right side of the road. GO LEFT GO LEFT GO LEFT....lol

Phil, from riderskills, did ask: Why, Really Why, do you Germans do this all the time !.......Well I am german and we do drive on the other side, sorry



No one should get a free license without any , any , testing of the road code, and some sort of practical driving test. Feel lucky, go do the test straight away, go on the incorrect side of the road....sorry sir or mam, please walk. But feel free to take some lessons and come back and try to pass your lisence again.

When I went fo my USA DL they told me if I was from Germany they would have forgone the test and just given me one as the Germans also drive on the wrong side of the road...
I do agree with you that no manner where you have come from you should do the local test.

[Maha]

Some time ago, i went to the AA and gave them my german driver license. I got a NZ lisences in return. No questions asked, no driver lessons taken, no nothing zilch nada etc.

I asked the Lady if she was joking, and her answer was " Germans in have much stronger testing and licensing rules then we have here in NZ, and the law states that you can just have your license replaced, so here you go stop bothering me".

Note: I have never driven a car in NZ (still haven't).
I went to do my basic handling skill test, did my L and was told I was now legal to ride on the road on a bike. WTF i ask, you are sure about that? and again i was told to just accept how stuff is done in NZ and enjoy my riding.

I then took a riding course (i do like to stay alive), and the very first thing i did, after the little voice in my ear told me to turn right.........end up on the right side of the road. GO LEFT GO LEFT GO LEFT....lol

Phil, from riderskills, did ask: Why, Really Why, do you Germans do this all the time !.......Well I am german and we do drive on the other side, sorry



No one should get a free license without any , any , testing of the road code, and some sort of practical driving test. Feel lucky, go do the test straight away, go on the incorrect side of the road....sorry sir or mam, please walk. But feel free to take some lessons and come back and try to pass your lisence again.

Yes, but oh what fun you had with your BHS iirc?....

[tzrmike]

Habit of a lifetime is a hard thing to break.

While in Europe recently, if not using public transport, I walked. Took nearly three bloody weeks to stop looking right, left, right when crossing the road!

[pete376403]

With conventions like this, it becomes easier to understand the reasons behind the events.
Drive on the Right

Except for a brief period during the Cultural Revolution (1966–1976) when the government encouraged people to drive on the left (for symbolic/ideological reasons)[citation needed], the convention has been to drive on the right. In practice, however, driving to the left into oncoming traffic is not uncommon in China, nor is it as stigmatized and penalized as it is in other countries. This is especially true of bicyclists, electric bicycles, and motorcycles who—unless physically prevented by barriers—are almost equally likely to be found riding on the right, left or straight down the middle of lanes of traffic.

[edit] Right-of-way

Right-of-way (Simplified Chinese: 先行权, Pinyin: xiānxíngquán, Lit: “first go rights”) is defined as such in all Chinese dictionaries, however, most Chinese drivers’ understanding of this concept is markedly different from those in societies with a strong tradition of the rule of law. Compared to the western understanding of right-of-way, which refers to the legal right to proceed forward in a vehicle without fear of being found at fault for causing a collision, right-of-way in China means, for all intents and purposes, that the person who is in the way (first) has the right. In practice, this translates into motorists and cyclists turning or merging straight into the path of other traffic believing that the onus is on the other person to avoid a collision.

When the right-of-way is unclear (such as at unmarked intersections) it is common practice for drivers in many parts of the world to make eye contact with each other and use nods or hand gestures to either exert or defer right-of-way. The opposite applies in China, where people actively avoid eye contact, and in fact turn away from the person whose progress they are impeding so as to communicate their intention to proceed regardless.

(Wikipedia)

[scumdog]

Damn ...

Two motorcyclists died after a crash with a car on the Lindis Pass in the South Island.

The two motorcycles struck the car about 2.15pm on Monday on the pass about 55km east of Wanaka.

Two people died while one person with serious injuries was being flown to Dunedin Hospital, police said.

It was not clear if anybody else was involved in the crash.
The pass, a stretch of State Highway 8 in North Otago which crosses the Southern Alps between Twizel and Wanaka, is expected to be closed until at least 7pm on Monday.

And the day before that I passed the scene of two other motorbike crashes that had happened literally 2-3 minutes beforehand, this was while I was heading north from the Magpie Madness.

Both seemed to be the fault of the rider
One did (or attempted to do) a U-turn at the end of the passing lanes between Ashburton adn Chertsey, he got cleaned out by a van heading in the other direction (his lucky day, all the passengers were doctors)

The other appeared to be a case of two bikers travelling close together and at the rear of a well stretched out group.
Both of the riders APPEARED to have overcooked a moderate (for 100kph it would be moderate) left-hand bend and ploughed into the side of a camper-van heading in the other direction.

I came around the same bend to find the camper-van imbeded into the bank to my left (ie wrong side of road for it) and bad crash damage to the drivers side behind the drivers-seat area.
And two bikes, two riders scattered along the road, all four not moving....

The front-runners of the group were waiting in Cheviot for the two involved in the crash to appear.

The whole group had overtaken me five or so minutes before.

'The jury is still out' as to whose fault this crash was but there's not much to indicate fault with the camper-van driver...

Just sayin'....

[blue rider]

Yes, but oh what fun you had with your BHS iirc?....

id did and i didn't hit anything!

[Maki]

I was one of them. Went north through the Lindis well before the incident in question, though.

I did have a related incident. Somewhere between Twizel and Fairlie there's a big sweeping lefthander at the top of a rise, there's a good wide shoulder on the left, I suspect it's supposed to be a slow vehicle lane but it's not really that wide, and I don't think it's marked as such.

Anyway, I crested the hill more or less smack in the middle of that "slow" lane, just in time to have a grey sedan appear, overtaking a line of cars coming the other way... in my lane. Couldn't believe it, looked at the lane markings again... sure enough, he'd just crested the top of a hill on a blind corner, on the wrong side of the road.

Thinking back, there wern't any yellow lines, perhaps the turn wans't that tight, but If I'd been in the correct lane I doubt I'd have tightened up enough to get under him, I'd be gone for all money. Luckily the 6 guys behind me had all also moved left into the inside lane.

I wonder when and if the police will start to come down on that kind of murderous behavior rather than chasing people who are going at a safe speed according to the conditions which happens to be a few k above the posted speed limit. Never I guess because it would be too hard.

I also wonder why no one has suggested the glaringly obvious solution to this "driving on the wrong side of the road" problem. Why don't all countries simply AGREE to drive either on the right or the left hand side of the road everywhere and there would never be any confusion? Of course that is too hard too because WE always know better than THEY do and WE ride on the right side and THEY ride on the wrong side.

[Ocean1]

Why don't all countries simply AGREE to drive either on the right or the left hand side of the road everywhere and there would never be any confusion?

Because using the side of the road you're not familliar with isn't really the primary cause of head-ons.

Not even for Chinese.

This is:

right-of-way in China means, for all intents and purposes, that the person who is in the way (first) has the right. In practice, this translates into motorists and cyclists turning or merging straight into the path of other traffic believing that the onus is on the other person to avoid a collision.

(Wikipedia)

Which is a perfectly valid traffic control protocol. In China. It's a real education to drive there, leave a space in front of you and someone will fill it every time. The problem here isn't them being unaccustomed to driving on the left, it's firstly that they're used to taking advantage of every single opportunity to advance in traffic whatever the local rules and secondly the fact that they very rarely drive at speed with traffic traveling the other way, so the consequenses of that behaviour aren't high over there.

Besides, I doubt the guy/girl that appeared on my side of the road at well over the limit was Chinese, the model and fettling were what you'd normally associate with a young kiwi.

I still find it hard to understand how anyone could put themselves in that position. I've very occasionally taken chances that have proved in hindsight to have been more risky that might have been prudent, perhaps resulting in less clearance between me and other traffic than I'm comfortable with. But I've got no idea at all what decision making procedures make someone suddenly decide to put themselves in an opposing lane on a blind corner, and yet I've seen it happen far more regularly over the last few years. What's changed?