Rolling Jubilee - for Mashman, with love, Occupy Wall Street

[blue rider]

Something is happening in the States that not only seems a decent thing to do, but also would please Mashman "Mr. No Mo Money"

http://rollingjubilee.org/

It seems that peeps are buying up debts at a penny, not to collect but to forgive.

No, this is not frivolous debt, but medical debt, as in the US of A one third of the poplulation is actually without medical insurance, and over 50% of all bankruptcies are due to medical cost.

The original goal of this #StrikeDebt project was to raise $50,000 and buy medical debt on the 'collection market.' Since debt on those markets is bought at pennies to the dollar that would yield an estimated $1,000,000 in debt owed that would then be retired without penalty or cost to those who originally and still owed the debt.

Then the idea went viral, tweeted and blogged out across the land, even picked up by the New York Times and now the New Yorker. Almost a week after their telethon on November 15th they have raised more than $412,000, allowing them to retire more than eight million in debt. It is not impossible to envision those numbers reaching $500,000 and $10,000,000 in retired debt before long.

There are trillions of dollars of debt Americans have outstanding (over a trillion in student debt alone); retiring ten million of it is not going to make a dent, that is true.

But the symbolism is as or more important as the boon to those whose debt will be retired. Occupy is credited with having changed the conversation about the wealthiest of Americans and their fair share of taxes; now they are trying to bring that same awareness to a crippling problem that affects many of the ninety-nine percent: continuing crushing medical debt, student debt, mortgage debt and credit card debt all the while those on top had their debts miraculously (or not so miraculously, some would say) forgiven by the United States government.

The message: You are not a loan.


Hat tip: Dailykos.com

[mashman]

Something is happening in the States that not only seems a decent thing to do, but also would please Mashman "Mr. No Mo Money"

http://rollingjubilee.org/

It seems that peeps are buying up debts at a penny, not to collect but to forgive.

No, this is not frivolous debt, but medical debt, as in the US of A one third of the poplulation is actually without medical insurance, and over 50% of all bankruptcies are due to medical cost.

The original goal of this #StrikeDebt project was to raise $50,000 and buy medical debt on the 'collection market.' Since debt on those markets is bought at pennies to the dollar that would yield an estimated $1,000,000 in debt owed that would then be retired without penalty or cost to those who originally and still owed the debt.

Then the idea went viral, tweeted and blogged out across the land, even picked up by the New York Times and now the New Yorker. Almost a week after their telethon on November 15th they have raised more than $412,000, allowing them to retire more than eight million in debt. It is not impossible to envision those numbers reaching $500,000 and $10,000,000 in retired debt before long.

There are trillions of dollars of debt Americans have outstanding (over a trillion in student debt alone); retiring ten million of it is not going to make a dent, that is true.

But the symbolism is as or more important as the boon to those whose debt will be retired. Occupy is credited with having changed the conversation about the wealthiest of Americans and their fair share of taxes; now they are trying to bring that same awareness to a crippling problem that affects many of the ninety-nine percent: continuing crushing medical debt, student debt, mortgage debt and credit card debt all the while those on top had their debts miraculously (or not so miraculously, some would say) forgiven by the United States government.

The message: You are not a loan.


Hat tip: Dailykos.com

Brilliant find, absolutely brilliant ... it brings tears to my eyes to read these sorts of things.

It says that "62% of all bankruptcies are caused by a medical illness". And people call for a pay as you go healthcare and education services etc... I highly doubt that 62% of all bankruptcies are people who don't have jobs.

"Think of it as a bailout of the 99% by the 99%."

Now all we need is a rich bastard (coulda said cunt, either way a generic term for person) over here, or from elsewhere for that matter, to back a no money NZ and then we can sit back and watch the world change and become what it should be. I hope we all get to see it.

[blue rider]

you see the beauty is that no rich 'what ever' is needed. this is people orientated and works with donations. It is quite amazing that 400,000 $ US can buy about 10,000,000 $ debt.

Why the fuck buy a rotting house in Auckland when for the same Money you can collect several millions. Fucked up values if ever I have seen some.

[mashman]

you see the beauty is that no rich 'what ever' is needed. this is people orientated and works with donations. It is quite amazing that 400,000 $ US can buy about 10,000,000 $ debt.

Why the fuck buy a rotting house in Auckland when for the same Money you can collect several millions. Fucked up values if ever I have seen some.

Very true... although the rich are needed to fight the other rich . It is an absolutely beautiful idea and as you say being able to buy $10,000,000 of something using only $400,000 is exceptionally fucked up... especially as it's an accepted and legal practice. Having said that, the actual money used to create that debt using the fractional reserve system was likely only $100,000 (can't be arsed doing the maths).

[Akzle]

The message: You are not a loan.

no. as a man, you are not.
as a corporate person, that's exactly what you are. a value to be exchanged on the market, security to be loaned/borrowed against by your government.

but hey, i'm no economist, what would i know.

[tigertim20]

Now all we need is a rich bastard (coulda said cunt, either way a generic term for person) over here, or from elsewhere for that matter, to back a no money NZ and then we can sit back and watch the world change and become what it should be. I hope we all get to see it.

ok, Ill bite.
while i agree its a great thing for the states, it is a little different here. people can go broke in the USA from breaking a leg, or and arm or whatever, we have a healthcare system in NZ that means we dont have that issue like the states do.
While I think its brilliant that people are helping others out of hardship - i.e. bankruptcy due to medical costs - due to lack of a sufficient healthcare system, it would be stupid to do the same here. Our bankrupt or people who are going bankrupt from bad debts made by choice, e.g. wanting a car they really cant afford and putting it on tick, rather than due to circumstances of need, i.e. selling everything they own to pay to get their broken leg fixed before it gets an infection that kills them, because the state/government doesnt cover that shit.

My wife is from the US. She simply would not get healthcare cover over there. The USA allows companies to simply deny you coverage, so say you had a serious illness as a child, but overcame it. They can say no, you are too much risk, we will not cover you, ever, end of story. So you go through life without cover. If you break a bone later in life through something totally unrelated to your previous illness, you're fucked if you dont have the money to pay for the healthcare.

This issue has been dealt with somewhat though by the coming introduction of 'Obamacare', which, in it's simplest terms means that insurance companies CAN NOT deny you health insurance - so people like those discussed int he article will now be able to get cover if they were previously unable to

It is an absolutely beautiful idea and as you say being able to buy $10,000,000 of something using only $400,000 is exceptionally fucked up... especially as it's an accepted and legal practice. Having said that, the actual money used to create that debt using the fractional reserve system was likely only $100,000 (can't be arsed doing the maths).

its not fucked up - bad debts are sold regularly at below what is owed - the company that sells the debt is still losing money - if you were to instigate thet same thing in good old enzed, the people getting off the hook would be muppets who wanted a Skyline or a Suby, and went and out a 20k car on tick when they couldnt afford it, debt goes bad, dealer ends up 15k out of pocket, some sap buys the debt cheap, and all you have done, is let the muppet off the hook for over-extending themselves financially, and they get away scot free - since the bad debt will show up as paid off, and the dealer is still out of pocket.

[mashman]

ok, Ill bite.
while i agree its a great thing for the states, it is a little different here. people can go broke in the USA from breaking a leg, or and arm or whatever, we have a healthcare system in NZ that means we dont have that issue like the states do.
While I think its brilliant that people are helping others out of hardship - i.e. bankruptcy due to medical costs - due to lack of a sufficient healthcare system, it would be stupid to do the same here. Our bankrupt or people who are going bankrupt from bad debts made by choice, e.g. wanting a car they really cant afford and putting it on tick, rather than due to circumstances of need, i.e. selling everything they own to pay to get their broken leg fixed before it gets an infection that kills them, because the state/government doesnt cover that shit.

My wife is from the US. She simply would not get healthcare cover over there. The USA allows companies to simply deny you coverage, so say you had a serious illness as a child, but overcame it. They can say no, you are too much risk, we will not cover you, ever, end of story. So you go through life without cover. If you break a bone later in life through something totally unrelated to your previous illness, you're fucked if you dont have the money to pay for the healthcare.

This issue has been dealt with somewhat though by the coming introduction of 'Obamacare', which, in it's simplest terms means that insurance companies CAN NOT deny you health insurance - so people like those discussed int he article will now be able to get cover if they were previously unable to

They may be in the US but they are still human beings that just need to be fixed. The bit you quoted was in reference to getting rid of the financial aspect of healthcare/education etc... entirely so that such things don't happen any more.

I "understand" how their system works and think it's disgusting that you can't be repaired without sending yourself into bankruptcy. Of course that's business for ya. I remember the day I went to get my knee sorted. They had taken xrays of both of my knees and the surgeon came over and asked me which leg was to be operated on. Odd as he was the one I had consulted with. Anyway, he went on to explain that I would have been denied "cover" if it had been my left leg, due to having cracked my knee cap (healed in a week) some 20 years earlier. I guess I just got lucky. My boss, at the time, had to fight to have the same surgery because he did TKD and was likely to sustain injuries. I also remember some years back, when the ACC shit was hot to trot, that a few members had mentioned that they wouldn't be covered because of recurring/previous injury and getting private cover was cost prohibitive. To that end it looks like there are shades of the US system in the NZ system and I hope my left knee holds out.

its not fucked up - bad debts are sold regularly at below what is owed - the company that sells the debt is still losing money - if you were to instigate thet same thing in good old enzed, the people getting off the hook would be muppets who wanted a Skyline or a Suby, and went and out a 20k car on tick when they couldnt afford it, debt goes bad, dealer ends up 15k out of pocket, some sap buys the debt cheap, and all you have done, is let the muppet off the hook for over-extending themselves financially, and they get away scot free - since the bad debt will show up as paid off, and the dealer is still out of pocket.

It's business not personal right? Paint it any colour you like, it's still fucked up irrespective of wether people put themselves into that position or not. You should perform better background checks if you expect to get the money back that you decided to lend out. Perhaps they could be covered under the Retail Deposit Guarantee Scheme to allow for a no risk venture. Or just ditch money entirely and not run the risk of bad debt at all.

[Swoop]

The only "occupy Wall St" to get attention and results, was hurricane Sandy.

[blue rider]

The only "occupy Wall St" to get attention and results, was hurricane Sandy.

snark aside....they are actually doing stuff those "occupiers"

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/11/ny...pagewanted=all

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slate...ll_street.html

http://occupywallst.org/

they are being busy......lol

[mashman]

snark aside....they are actually doing stuff those "occupiers"

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/11/ny...pagewanted=all

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slate...ll_street.html

http://occupywallst.org/

they are being busy......lol

Shame we can't be that way towards each other irrespective of circumstance.

[mashman]

Something occurred to me on the throne of ideas this morning. I usually harp on about financial problems never being fixed with financial solutions. Them bastards at Occupy proving otherwise . Although if the debt wasn't there is the first place no one would have had to go through the process of being declared bankrupt or being refused healthcare. Praps if Buffet, Gates, Brangelina etc... dropped a few billion/million into the pot they would make a sizeable difference to the lives Occupy are helping. I'd love to ask them why they haven't or even if they had heard about the initiative.

[blue rider]

Something occurred to me on the throne of ideas this morning. I usually harp on about financial problems never being fixed with financial solutions. Them bastards at Occupy proving otherwise . Although if the debt wasn't there is the first place no one would have had to go through the process of being declared bankrupt or being refused healthcare. Praps if Buffet, Gates, Brangelina etc... dropped a few billion/million into the pot they would make a sizeable difference to the lives Occupy are helping. I'd love to ask them why they haven't or even if they had heard about the initiative.

ask and post the reply. seriously why not.

[mashman]

ask and post the reply. seriously why not.

I just created a twatter account and did just that. Shit that you have limited characters, but hey. Thanks for my twatter username

[Akzle]

Although if the debt wasn't there is the first place no one would have had to go through the process of being declared bankrupt or being refused healthcare

...the first rule of fight club, is...

((erase the debt record, we all go back to zero))

[puddytat]

And...make it a hell of a lot harder to acquire new debt.
I think though , that for example if the debt was zeroed out that the average Joe would think "Choice,now what can I buy". Then the economy would surge & we'd be back to raping & pillaging the planet again.