FOR SALE - Drew and Alan's sidecar build

**Ocean1** · 27th December 2013, 19:07

Originally Posted by Drew

Where do I get this 'Moly assembly lube' from?

Trade tools: http://tradetools.co.nz/webimages/2845130-10.pdf

And probably most engineers suppliers.

But I'd wait to check with Grumph, I'd personally not use anything with molybdenum disulphide in it anywhere near a wet clutch.

**Grumph** · 27th December 2013, 19:11

Originally Posted by jasonu

Prolly Supercheap. It aint nothing special.

Correct - there are several brands out there, all moly base greases basically. Even my local ITM had the Wurth version on sale a while back....

If the filter is at the front of the motor, could be worth raising the rear of the chair when you fire it to try and get any air out....But if you've got a shallow sump you could be sucking air....

**Grumph** · 27th December 2013, 19:13

Originally Posted by Ocean1

Trade tools: http://tradetools.co.nz/webimages/2845130-10.pdf

And probably most engineers suppliers.

But I'd wait to check with Grumph, I'd personally not use anything with molybdenum disulphide in it anywhere near a wet clutch.

Never had a problem...maybe an ounce of moly grease dissolved in four plus liters of oil....

**Ocean1** · 27th December 2013, 19:31

Originally Posted by Grumph

Never had a problem...maybe an ounce of moly grease dissolved in four plus liters of oil....

I used small quantities, rubbed onto cam lobes and any other high load contact surfaces, but sparingly. The one build I had clutch problems with was from a high molly content oil.

**Shaun Harris** · 28th December 2013, 07:05

Originally Posted by Ocean1

I used small quantities, rubbed onto cam lobes and any other high load contact surfaces, but sparingly.

That is the correct way to use it for building an engine.

**Grumph** · 28th December 2013, 07:28

Originally Posted by Moto-Dynamix

Originally Posted by Ocean1

I used small quantities, rubbed onto cam lobes and any other high load contact surfaces, but sparingly.

That is the correct way to use it for building an engine.

I agree Shaun - but we were talking about prepacking oil pumps....as i said earlier, vaseline - or white grease - works fine for this but i prefer an assembly lube as i've seen problems - but only on roller bearing motors which don't move the volume of oil the kawa in question will....On older roller motors vaseline can inhibit flow badly until it gets hot enough to liquefy - and i've seen a roller big end starved enough to seize. hence my preference for assembly lube....

**Drew** · 28th December 2013, 08:20

Originally Posted by Grumph

I agree Shaun - but we were talking about prepacking oil pumps....as i said earlier, vaseline - or white grease - works fine for this but i prefer an assembly lube as i've seen problems - but only on roller bearing motors which don't move the volume of oil the kawa in question will....On older roller motors vaseline can inhibit flow badly until it gets hot enough to liquefy - and i've seen a roller big end starved enough to seize. hence my preference for assembly lube....

Hang on a mo. If I were to prepack the oil pump with assembly grease, I then need to run it up and drain that oil don't I?

Sort of defeating the purpose. The motor is not brand new, and the internals were all wet with oil from previous running before we got it. In fact it looks like it only got drained of oil for shipping.

**Shaun Harris** · 28th December 2013, 08:38

Originally Posted by Drew

Hang on a mo. If I were to prepack the oil pump with assembly grease, I then need to run it up and drain that oil don't I?

Sort of defeating the purpose. The motor is not brand new, and the internals were all wet with oil from previous running before we got it. In fact it looks like it only got drained of oil for shipping.

Assembly grease No Drew, NO DRAMA what so ever, as you only use a smear of it on moving metal parts, NOT BLOBS of it in motor. Remember air rises dude, and bleed the oil well

**Drew** · 28th December 2013, 08:54

Originally Posted by Moto-Dynamix

Assembly grease No Drew, NO DRAMA what so ever, as you only use a smear of it on moving metal parts, NOT BLOBS of it in motor. Remember air rises dude, and bleed the oil well

There hasn't been an assembly though. All surfaces are wet already from running. I turned the motor over for quite a while before plugging in the cam angle sensor and starting it, to circulate the oil.

We're talking about packing the oil pump full of the stuff, so there is negative pressure straight away rather than waiting till oil gets to it.

**Shaun Harris** · 28th December 2013, 09:06

Originally Posted by Drew

There hasn't been an assembly though. All surfaces are wet already from running. I turned the motor over for quite a while before plugging in the cam angle sensor and starting it, to circulate the oil.

We're talking about packing the oil pump full of the stuff, so there is negative pressure straight away rather than waiting till oil gets to it.

I understand what is being talked about man but those motors are common for oil pick up pressure problems. I would be finding the highest point to let OIL/AIR escape from whilst motor is idiling. It will take a little time and reg checks for oil level, but will gaurantee the air is deleted from the system.

Put a post on www.wera.com in the tech section re air and those motors and you will get some healthy replies over the next 24 hours ( Due to time differences)

**Drew** · 28th December 2013, 09:10

Originally Posted by Moto-Dynamix

I understand what is being talked about man but those motors are common for oil pick up pressure problems. I would be finding the highest point to let OIL/AIR escape from whilst motor is idiling. It will take a little time and reg checks for oil level, but will gaurantee the air is deleted from the system.

Put a post on www.wera.com in the tech section re air and those motors and you will get some healthy replies over the next 24 hours ( Due to time differences)

Oh right.

I'll have a look for a high external spot to bleed air from, I can't think of anything higher than the filter from memory.

**Drew** · 28th December 2013, 17:59

Well, in a rather surprising turn of events a couple things have been discovered.

The last motor didn't expire due to the oil pressure relief valve at all. It would have been causing the pressure to drop a bit for sure, but the real cause was in fact a sheered drive on the oil pump...on BOTH fucken motors.

Turns out that if you over fill the Kawasakis, they can get such high pressures that the pump tries to stop and shit gets messy.

Luckily we had the drive shaft as one of the few useable bits from the original motor, so we are up and running again. With a more sensible oil level of course.

We'll be getting an accusump kit when we get back from the south island just to be sure, but confidence is a tad higher now that we can start finishing some races.

**nzmikey** · 28th December 2013, 18:11

Originally Posted by Drew

Well, in a rather surprising turn of events a couple things have been discovered.

The last motor didn't expire due to the oil pressure relief valve at all. It would have been causing the pressure to drop a bit for sure, but the real cause was in fact a sheered drive on the oil pump...on BOTH fucken motors.

Turns out that if you over fill the Kawasakis, they can get such high pressures that the pump tries to stop and shit gets messy.

Luckily we had the drive shaft as one of the few useable bits from the original motor, so we are up and running again. With a more sensible oil level of course.

We'll be getting an accusump kit when we get back from the south island just to be sure, but confidence is a tad higher now that we can start finishing some races.

**nodrog:Me** · 28th December 2013, 18:18

I like Boobies!

**Ocean1** · 28th December 2013, 18:43

Originally Posted by Drew

Well, in a rather surprising turn of events a couple things have been discovered.

The last motor didn't expire due to the oil pressure relief valve at all. It would have been causing the pressure to drop a bit for sure, but the real cause was in fact a sheered drive on the oil pump...on BOTH fucken motors.

Turns out that if you over fill the Kawasakis, they can get such high pressures that the pump tries to stop and shit gets messy.

Luckily we had the drive shaft as one of the few useable bits from the original motor, so we are up and running again. With a more sensible oil level of course.

We'll be getting an accusump kit when we get back from the south island just to be sure, but confidence is a tad higher now that we can start finishing some races.

That's good. Very good.

But how does overfilling them cause the pump to, (presumably) hydraulic lock if there's a functional relief valve in line?