Which fork springs for a Bandit?

[nzspokes]

Anyway, you evaded my question about what the springs would cost with representative freight content, port fees, clearance and gst, because its clearly not important to you. But its deadly important to NZ retailers and the people they employ who are in part being crucified by this imbalance of private importers not being charged like they are.

Cost me $330 and a bit of change for the springs, set of iridium plugs, timing advancer and a valve adjusting tool. That was landed into NZ so includes freight.

[Robert Taylor]

Cost me $330 and a bit of change for the springs, set of iridium plugs, timing advancer and a valve adjusting tool. That was landed into NZ so includes freight.

Thats not an answer to the very specific question that I forwarded. I give up, the issue that I have repeatedly highlighted is something that you and many others care nothing at all about, or its short and long term ramifications.Conversely, I for one will continue to care about the future of small NZ businesses and the people that they employ.

[Madness]

I give up.

Stupidity can't be cured unfortunately.

[nzspokes]

I give up

Good, because what I originally asked which spring set was better to which I found the answer. The rest was just boring.

[Madness]

Good, because what I originally asked which spring set was better to which I found the answer. The rest was just boring.

Acually the OP was boring. The thread got interesting in the middle there in the kind of way that a train smash is interesting. Now it's just sad & pathetic, a bit like watching a wild animal ignore its young & letting it starve to death.

[Robert Taylor]

Well guys, what are you going to do when the last shop that stocks motorcycle clothing and helmets closes? Where will you go locally to try on gear to confirm sizing? And then buy it off the net.............

[hayd3n]

+ if you take %15 gst off $249.95 they are pretty cheap really
and you get to support New Zealand
and %100 local support

[Madness]

Well guys, what are you going to do when the last shop that stocks motorcycle clothing and helmets closes? Where will you go locally to try on gear to confirm sizing? And then buy it off the net.............

And bicycle shops...

[tigertim20]

Its all good till you realise the wrong itme was sent, and you gotta pay return postage, wait four weeks till it gets there, then wait another 5 weeks for them to send it.

Or you get some chink saying me no send wong ting, you no fit well your fault bye

[Robert Taylor]

As this thread well proves there will always be those who will simplistically lambast retailers for being rip offs, much of it is unjustified and some doubtless is justified. This is irrespective of what the industry is and I have to wonder aloud how many of those throwing acid are themselves employed by ( and dependent for a living ) industries that are percieved as ripping people off. With another major Auckland dealer shutting its doors it just goes to prove that dealers just have to jump through too many hoops to try and make ends meet in a trading environment that doesnt ( fairly ) tax across the board and is essentially open slather.

I have to also wonder aloud how many on here that have decried ACC levies on motorcyclists ( and there are justifications for and against ) while at the same time have bought lots of stuff over the net from overseas companies and have rarely been intercepted for clearance and gst charges. In case we are inclined to forget the social services we are all used to including ACC are assisted in funding by the overall tax take. But also there are people out there who just cannot see the big picture beyond their own pocket and comfort zone. That is not to deride those who havent got a lot of expendable income, its just that the whole situation self perpetuates into a vicious cycle. And people wonder why real wage rates in NZ are pretty much suppressed, except if you are a politician or a high ranked council employee feeding off the public purse!

Anyway, some further comments about FORK SPRINGS, stuff that I personally take for granted but not everyone will be aware of:

1) As previously eluded to the Race Tech and other spring rate calculators are certainly not foolproof, especially for less common models. Today I recieved an order for a set of fork springs for an earlier model of Japanese bike. I entered the customer weight and application into the search function and got back complete garbage, approximately 2 half rates away from what I know from experience will work. Also, when selecting fork springs for bikes with old style damper rod forks ( that have abysmal low speed hydraulic control ) there is a tendency to err on the firmer side to compensate for the lack of damping. But if you do a complete job by fitting Race Tech emulators ( thereby sorting out 50% of the issue being damping related ) then you can afford to be not as aggressive with the spring selection. This is all about COMBINATIONS.

2) Most mainstream aftermarket springs are generic in length and they wont match the dimensions of the original fork springs. This means that you have to ( using blank preload tube supplied in the kit ) calculate the length required for cutting the new preload spacers and then cut them, SQUARELY. This ideally should be done with a lathe but of course not everyone has access to a lathe and I have to wonder how many self instals are not so good. In recognising our despicably abrasive friend Viscount Montgomerys ( Kerry somebodys? ) comments this is not to say that there will be plenty of people out there more than capable of doing an excellent job. But the whole point is this is not a straightforward ''throw them in deal'', it takes not insignificant time and it is very very easy to stuff up. BUT ALSO, having less lengths to make keeps the manufacturing costs down and therefore the end price to the consumer. For our own customers that need assistance with this we will often cut the preload spacer tubes ( at no further charge ), we are just a phone call away in real time and we have most stock that can most times be sent overnight / next working day.

3 ) Ohlins while likely not unique in this respect make a range of fork springs that are specific to many models that they list them for. it seems every single road bike takes a length spring totally specific to it and often the internal diameters are different at each end as well. If you fit mass market springs that are not matched in internal diameters installation will be that the spring doesnt centralise properly and will rub and make lots of noise. Not ideal. Ohlins fork springs are specific to each individual model and are dimensioned exactly the same as the originals so that they will assemble with the original preload spacers and centralisation / holding pieces. This saves a lot of work and if you are paying someone to instal its arguable that the extra you spent on them will be offset ( maybe more than offset ) by less labour content.( Assuming the installer is honest ) It makes the whole job a hell of a lot easier and there is no chance of stuffing up the preload calculation. For this reason of model specific sizing ( less volume for each production run ), extra processing of variant end diameters and all of the other aforementioned reasons in previous posts on this thread its then easy to understand why Ohlins fork springs are usually more expensive.
The negatives are that the range wont cover everything from year dot and that there arent rate options for more irregular weight loadings. For a small distributor in a very cost conscious market ( often totally blinkered by cost without understanding the full reasons why ) its also impossible to stock hundreds upon hundreds of listings, some with very very slow stock turn. Theres also some reticence to stock heavily when the imbalanced import tax situation means you are often in a dutch auction with some Yank company that is insulated by distance if something is not right. But for anything that isnt available immediately we can usually have here within a maximum of 3 weeks ex Stockholm, often faster. We still sell a good few of these model specific springs as there are still customers more preoccupied with quality rather than the lowest possible price being the only driving factor

4) I mentioned in a previous thread about how Ohlins fork springs are indelibly laser etched with their rate on their ends. And how this saves a lot of grief later on. And also how many aftermarket fork springs are ink marked for rate ( which can wear off quickly) or not at all. That becomes a real pain in the butt further down the track with say a subsequent owner, no easily accessible historical data etc etc.
WHAT TO DO? Calcualtion formulae, using spring dimensions is certainly not foolproof given end conditions and other factors, etc etc. Testing rear shock springs is easy enough with a professional digital spring rate tester, but measuring fork springs this way requires a different load cell and a means of positively supporting / centralising the long length of a fork spring while it is being tested. This without allowing the spring to barrell sideways while being placed under a testing load or to have excessive rubbing friction placed upon it, affecting the accuracy of reading.
We were so frustrated with the inadequacies of everything commercially available for testing fork springs and the poor repeatability that ( at not inconsiderable cost ) we built our own very quick and simple to use fork spring tester. This has a whole series of guide blocks to support a huge plethora of fork spring diameters and lengths. Moreover it is quick and accurate. So if someone has a set of fork springs that they are unsure what their rate is we can test. This is also very useful for shortening springs ( which increases their rate ) and then actually knowing 100% what the rate ends up at. No guesswork, just as with our suspension dyno.

The above is information and not intended solely for commercial gain. But we are here to serve the NZ market to the best our ability and we put our (modest)returns back into business investment and the LOCAL economy. I am happy to engage in positive questions / comments

[Robert Taylor]

And there is another factor worthy of consideration. Except in dirtbike applications where you will have up to around 300mm of travel you dont have to fill the forks up with really long fork springs. Consistent with having enough stroke integrity and therefore no coil bind at ''full closed ''there is a lot of merit in having the fork springs as short as possible, matched to much longer preload spacer tubes. This reduces weight but more importantly it reduces the length of rubbing friction where the inner walls of the fork tubes are used to support the fork springs.
Thoroughbred race forks/ cartridge kits of course have inner fluted spring guides ( usually made of nylon ) and the springs never get to touch the inner fork walls. But it is still a good mentality to minimise the length of the springs. Of course you pay more for such technology but not everything is about price.
Traxxion Dynamics have a good system with their omni springs, with the springs are supplied internal nylon spring guide kits. This makes the whole package more expensive, but this all works really well.
Another thing to consider is that apples for apples if you change to a firmer spring rate ( using the same spring manufacturer and series ) you raise the oil level in the fork and therefore seconday trapped air spring compression ratio. This because the heavier wire used in the firmer spring will displace more volume.

[Morcs]

A lot of people dont seem to understand the sheer costs of overheads of keeping a phyical business open when they make out that dealers are making heaps of money when stuff is quite a bit more expensive.
For an average dealership, probably paying 500k a year just on a lease and wagebill to have a shop with people in it.

[pete-blen]

And there is another factor worthy of consideration. Except in dirtbike applications where you will have up to around 300mm of travel you dont have to fill the forks up with really long fork springs. Consistent with having enough stroke integrity and therefore no coil bind at ''full closed ''there is a lot of merit in having the fork springs as short as possible, matched to much longer preload spacer tubes. This reduces weight but more importantly it reduces the length of rubbing friction where the inner walls of the fork tubes are used to support the fork springs.
Thoroughbred race forks/ cartridge kits of course have inner fluted spring guides ( usually made of nylon ) and the springs never get to touch the inner fork walls. But it is still a good mentality to minimise the length of the springs. Of course you pay more for such technology but not everything is about price.
Traxxion Dynamics have a good system with their omni springs, with the springs are supplied internal nylon spring guide kits. This makes the whole package more expensive, but this all works really well.
Another thing to consider is that apples for apples if you change to a firmer spring rate ( using the same spring manufacturer and series ) you raise the oil level in the fork and therefore seconday trapped air spring compression ratio. This because the heavier wire used in the firmer spring will displace more volume.

another fact with compression springs is as they compress the dia incresses as they try to un-wined...
So a tight/snug fit in the tube would not be a good idea...
have you ever measured the un-compressed & compressed Dia of a spring...

[Robert Taylor]

another fact with compression springs is as they compress the dia incresses as they try to un-wined...
So a tight/snug fit in the tube would not be a good idea...
Have you ever measured the un-compressed & compressed dia of a spring...

yes indeed, and not all spring brands are equal in that respect as well!