Brainless Broads Babbling Bullshit!

[Headbanger]

Pmsl ok my thpelling ithint da best but hey hb seems ta think were idiots that cant think for ourselves we probably need thpellink lessons to

The track record and attitude of your industry speaks for itself. Defining a standard and training people towards it is about raising the overall skill base, Not about treating people like fools.

If you went into training with that outlook then you did indeed waste your time and the instructors time, even if your skill set is above the level of training provided.

If you go in determined to get nothing out of it then that's exactly what you receive, You think you can't be taught because you already know it all.

Hence, some farmers are their own worst enemies. You clearly are what you fear people perceive you to be.

[bogan]

Yeah, I was advocating upskilling, As I have said all ready safety systems can't work when the work force is so ignorant and poorly skilled.

And as I have already pointed out agricultural incidents and in particular incidents on quad bikes are a large component of a poorly performing safety culture.

Your not in a position to take the high ground when your an advocate of low skills and getting killed.

Still not providing any evidence as to the nature of the problem and how the solution addresses that. With a proportionally low incident rate your claims that the workforce is ignorant and poorly skilled are laughable, and perhaps insulting if anyone still take your opinions seriously.

Actually, I'm saying the skills are already adequate, and its not a lack of skills that get people killed. But you've heard that before, and I can only assume you deliberately misinterpret it so you can find some points to argue against.

[Katman]

Actually, I'm saying the skills are already adequate, and its not a lack of skills that get people killed.

Really? I'd say there would be a fair few (there I go again with that non-specific data) who get sent out on a quad who wouldn't have a clue how to safely traverse a steep slope.

[Headbanger]

Wondered when that straw man would show up. Wouldn't take fuck all to investigate as I said, those who do not even wish to ask the question are at the minimum lazy, but more likely incompetent and should not be involved in the decision making process in any way.

So, You have gone from being an advocate of zero training and death, to an expert on the condition on mechanical devices over and above someone whose specialty is the condition of motorcycles to now a specialist incident investigator.

The Health and Safety act stipulates that all hazards are to be recorderd and investigated, You then use the data to implement controls in the work place to ensure the same series of events don't repeat. Plant inspection and maintenance is a big part of this.

So, Your right, no legislation required, Farmers are already ignoring their legal obligations, Incidents are not being recorded, No improvements are being implemented, The situation remains the same, advocates consider the rate of killing and injury to be just fine.

That aside, The department of labour and the police have run a number of investigations into quad bike incidents on farms (you may want to ring them, give them your insights) and that has resulted in the Guidelines for ATV use and the training courses (which included mechanical and operation and Health and safety components), which of course are being mostly ignored by the industry, Because they are doing so fucking brilliantly that actually getting better is not an option.

Yeefucking ha.

[Headbanger]

Actually, I'm saying the skills are already adequate, and its not a lack of skills that get people killed. But you've heard that before,

seriously, what industry do you work in?

[Katman]

seriously, what industry do you work in?

He's on a committee.

[Headbanger]

He's on a committee.

I like the way hes gone from saying a mechanic can't give an expert opinion unless its been investigated but he can make the statement that lack of skill is not a factor......

[Banditbandit]

Why not?

Work place machinery is expected to be of a safe standard.

Why shouldn't farmers be expected to keep their bikes in an equally safe standard?

They are - quad bikes are workplace machinery ... and as such farmers are expected to keep them up to a safe standard.

The problem is that most quad bikes are used off road, most often on private land, so a WOF system would not work - who is to go aroudand check that the bikes are up to standard? Go onto private land and check it out?

Most quad bike acidernts also happen on private land - and are not subject to the same ivesdtigation as road accidnets . however, as work placve accidnets they are subject to OSH inivestigatin - and it is OSH who check on the safety of workplacve machinery - including quad bikes ...

But unfortunately OSH only investigates after an accuent has happened ..

From the department of Labour web site

"Is it enough to just provide helmets for workers?
It is not enough for farmers to just provide helmets for workers and others who ride their bikes. Farmers need to take steps to ensure that these helmets are worn.

What if my workers won’t wear a helmet, or take them off when I’m not around?
Your response should be the same as it would be if the worker did other serious things like consistently failed to turn up for work, or turned up drunk. If you take the issue seriously, so will they.

Clearly communicate to the worker that wearing a helmet prevents injury, and that helmets must be worn or disciplinary action will be taken.

You can use employment agreements to spell out that workers must comply with all health and safety requirements, including wearing helmets. The agreement can state that not complying with health and safety requirements would be considered serious misconduct and could result in disciplinary action, including their employment being ended.

Workers can also be reminded that it’s not just employers who can be prosecuted for not wearing a helmet. Employees also have a duty to keep themselves and others out of harm’s way, and the Department of Labour has prosecuted employees for failing to do this.

It is important that you lead by example - don’t expect your employees to wear a helmet if you don’t."

[kiwi cowboy]

The track record and attitude of your industry speaks for itself. Defining a standard and training people towards it is about raising the overall skill base, Not about treating people like fools.

I agree with part of this but where in yourstandard definition and training do you teach personal responsibility?.

If you went into training with that outlook then you did indeed waste your time and the instructors time, even if your skill set is above the level of training provided.

I diddnt go in with that outlook thankyou and i did enjoy the day.
If you go in determined to get nothing out of it then that's exactly what you receive, You think you can't be taught because you already know it all.

I dont know it all im still learning what a tosser you realy are.
Hence, some farmers are their own worst enemies. You clearly are what you fear people perceive you to be.

Some farmers are there own enemies but would you like a shot at how i think people perceive me just to clear that up?.

[Headbanger]

Its worrying that people have the perception that personal responsibility have been removed from the work place, The act itself empowers the employee in such a way that they not only have a personal responsibility but a general responsibility and the tools to do something about it if they wished to.

In a nutshell no one is allowed to do anything unsafe, tell anyone to do anything unsafe or allow anyone else to do anything unsafe.

Sure, it opens up large grey areas, a simple risk assessment tool will define the required steps/controls in under 5 minutes.

If there are unsafe plant, conditions or tasks being undertaken at your workplace, You have the right to refuse untill the risk has been investigated.

Also you are given by law 2 days a year to allow for training, The safety rep course just happens to be a 2 day free course,is held all year round,a d clearly a lot of people in this thread would get a lot from it if they went into it with an attitude to learn.

[bogan]

So, You have gone from being an advocate of zero training and death, to an expert on the condition on mechanical devices over and above someone whose specialty is the condition of motorcycles to now a specialist incident investigator.

The Health and Safety act stipulates that all hazards are to be recorderd and investigated, You then use the data to implement controls in the work place to ensure the same series of events don't repeat. Plant inspection and maintenance is a big part of this.

So, Your right, no legislation required, Farmers are already ignoring their legal obligations, Incidents are not being recorded, No improvements are being implemented, The situation remains the same, advocates consider the rate of killing and injury to be just fine.

That aside, The department of labour and the police have run a number of investigations into quad bike incidents on farms (you may want to ring them, give them your insights) and that has resulted in the Guidelines for ATV use and the training courses (which included mechanical and operation and Health and safety components), which of course are being mostly ignored by the industry, Because they are doing so fucking brilliantly that actually getting better is not an option.

Yeefucking ha.

Actually, I merely have theories that contradict others, easy enough to use the actual data to prove one right or wrong, which is what I'm advocating. The fact you have to resort to anecdotal evidence, deliberate misinterpretation, and insults wherever possible suggests you are unwilling to give alternate theories or the data any serious thought.

I like the way hes gone from saying a mechanic can't give an expert opinion unless its been investigated but he can make the statement that lack of skill is not a factor......

That's my theory, I'm not putting it forward as fact, but I am putting it forward as something that needs looking into. This is pretty fucking simple stuff guys, do try and keep up. BTW, a mechanic can give all the expert opinions they like, it just isn't relevant unless they are couple with the resulting effects. For a hypothetical example, rumbly wheel bearings sounds dangerous, but if they haven't killed or injured somebody for 30 years, then perhaps they are not as dangerous as the mechanic would have you believe.

And as a systems engineer, its my job to consider the big picture, and ensure proposed solutions are the most efficient way of getting the desired effects.

[kiwi cowboy]

Really? I'd say there would be a fair few (there I go again with that non-specific data) who get sent out on a quad who wouldn't have a clue how to safely traverse a steep slope.

Ok katman her's a we scenario for you and hb.

Im on a farm-its damp on the ground and i want to get up a steeper type hill that has a flat'er area on the ridge with a gully up either side.
I have to cross a colvit at the bottom and i have a spray tank on the quad full of spray for gorse up the hill further.

How would you handle the quad up the hill.

[bogan]

clearly a lot of people in this thread would get a lot from it if they went into it with an attitude to learn.

lmfao, yeh, cos I've crashed a quad and died three times this year, and its only the 9th

[Katman]

How would you handle the quad up the hill.

Fucked if I know.

But then again, I don't have to know - I'm not a farmer.

[Headbanger]

lmfao, yeh, cos I've crashed a quad and died three times this year, and its only the 9th

No, Because you are an ignorant know it all.

I suggest, as I did before that instead of assuming you already know everything that you instead go and actually learn something.