ESE's works engine tuner

[craisin]

I think it's the last one. The rules are quite clear. Easy to find on various websites.

so you need internet access just to read the rules and its entry level motorsport and you need to kiss certain amount of arse and even join a club and there heaps of outgoings but wheres the perks

[TZ350]

I believe the idea is the ceramic coating helps spread the heap more evenly over the combustion chamber thus minimising localised hotspots.
Like you though I am sceptical of the benefits in insulating layer an aircooled engine thats power output is limited by its lack of ability to shed heat...

Koba, How does a poor thermal conductor spread heat? Its those advertising chaps at it again. See what I mean! its suspicious don't you think.

I did read where they said it was the ceramics ability to reflect radiated heat, well polished aluminum or copper or even stainless steel does that and what about dirty ceramic.

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[koba]

so you need internet access just to read the rules and its entry level motorsport and you need to kiss certain amount of arse and even join a club and there heaps of outgoings but wheres the perks

You make no sense at all.

[koba]

Koba, How does a poor thermal conductor spread heat? Its those advertising chaps at it again. See what I mean! its suspicious don't you think.

I did read where they said it was the ceramics ability to reflect radiated heat, well polished aluminum or copper or even stainless steel does that and what about dirty ceramic.

.

Suspiscious I do think...

[TZ350]

so you need internet access just to read the rules and its entry level motorsport and you need to kiss certain amount of arse and even join a club and there heaps of outgoings but wheres the perks

"wheres the perks"...Well......craisin....... You get to race with some really neat people but don't expect them to tolerate bad manners.

[TZ350]

Suspiscious I do think...

Yep, me too.

[Fooman]

Koba, How does a poor thermal conductor spread heat?

Thermal barrier coatings (as used to protect components in all sorts of heat engines) do even out heat flux. They don't really do it by conducting heat away, but they do remove hot spots in the substrate material - just so long as the substrate is cooled via some mechanism (e.g, air, oil or water cooling in a barrel).

Cheers,
FM

[F5 Dave]

I do agree with what you are saying TeeZee but I do wonder about coating piston crown & possibly crankcase & inlet so the inlet charge is less affected by the combustion hence more dense when pumped or sucked into situ. Then again it might still heat up just as much over time & not be able to shed the heat anyways.

[F5 Dave]

so you need internet access just to read the rules and its entry level motorsport and you need to kiss certain amount of arse and even join a club and there heaps of outgoings but wheres the perks

Yeah you don't make much sense. MNZ rulebook is supplied to all competitors when they join. . . . or you can download it free.

I think what you are saying is that bucket racing is too expensive for you. Perhaps barefoot running or starlight orienteering might be more affordable.

[TZ350]

I do agree with what you are saying TeeZee but I do wonder about coating piston crown & possibly crankcase & inlet so the inlet charge is less affected by the combustion hence more dense when pumped or sucked into situ. Then again it might still heat up just as much over time & not be able to shed the heat anyways.

Yes I am sure there is a place for thermal coating of the ports, especially the exhaust port. I think that could be very beneficial and possibly the piston crown too but I am not convinced about the combustion chamber at all.



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[F5 Dave]

not cc, think that is counter productive. Ex port may be bad as well for same reasons as pipe wrapping is in dispute. maybe.

[TZ350]

Thermal barrier coatings (as used to protect components in all sorts of heat engines) do even out heat flux. They don't really do it by conducting heat away, but they do remove hot spots in the substrate material - just so long as the substrate is cooled via some mechanism (e.g, air, oil or water cooling in a barrel).

Cheers,
FM

I can see a benefit in coating valves, to reduce heat load, exhaust pipe headers for corrosion.

I would be interested in knowing more about the mechanism behind ceramics ability to even out temperatures within the combustion space.

I do recall one ceramic coating site extolling the virtues of ceramic coating the exhaust headers mat black to reduce under bonnet temperatures?????????

Mat black Exhaust + Exhaust Heat = Cooler under Bonnet!!! Not Likely

I don’t think so, that advertising copy writing kid was obviously asleep in science class or may be he majored in religious studies and works on a faith-based system.

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[TZ350]

not cc, think that is counter productive. Ex port may be bad as well for same reasons as pipe wrapping is in dispute. maybe.

F5 whats the argument against pipe wrapping? other than heat corrosion as I was thinking of wrapping the header, mostly to stop the heat being blown back over the fins. Hows ceramic coating of the exhaust counter productive? I thought it might be a good idea to reduce heat take-up in the exhaust tract, but so much is counter intuitive to what I originaly thought was right.

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[koba]

Just ran out of time but the second edition of A. Graham Bells book has a bit on ceramic coatings.
His conclusion is basically that it should only be any good on slow speed low throttle engines that lose alot of heat energy per cycle and it would be detrimental on a high speed competition engine.

[Fooman]

I would be interested in knowing more about the mechanism behind ceramics ability to even out temperatures within the combustion space.

Not so sure about the combustion space, but coatings even out the temperature of the substrate material (i.e. what the coating has been put on). If the substrate is sufficiently cooled (i.e. enough heat been taken away), then the poor thermal conductivity of the ceramic coating means that the substrate doesn't get the chance to heat up (as much). Hot-spots are "deposited" energy, like water in a sponge - if you waterproof a sponge it can't soak up water, so by coating a metal, you "heat" proof it to some degree - the energy does not get transmitted through the insulation to cause the localised heating in the substrate. Actually, I quite like that analogy!

I do recall one ceramic coating site extolling the virtues of ceramic coating the exhaust headers mat black to reduce under bonnet temperatures?????????

Mat black Exhaust + Exhaust Heat = Cooler under Bonnet!!! Not Likely

Actually the thermal emissivity of a object is not necessary related to it's colour - some things which look black in the visible spectrum may not behave like a black body in the IR spectrum - however, it is a good rule of thumb. Anyway, regardless of the colour of a ceramic coating, if it is there and the ceramic has lower thermal conductivity than the uncoated material (e.g. steel), there will be a greater temperature drop through the header wall - it will be cooler on the outside for the same exhaust temperature. A higher emissivity may mean that the cooler exhaust loses it's heat quicker, but it will be minimal (i.e. may be 0.90 rather than 0.80 (oxidised steel/cast iron), and I suspect the cooler skin temperature will dominate.

So, what will happen is the exhaust flow will not cool down as much, and therefore the heat that has not been lost at the headers will be lost somewhere else (out the back or in the muffler or under the body).

As a point of reference for you - note the following webpage:

http://www.newportus.com/Products/Techncal/MetlEmty.htm

Cheers,
FM