ESE's works engine tuner

[TZ350]

O, and one more thing, TZ350. Fritz is German. I am a Dutchie and I spell my first name with an s .

......

You can notice some blow-back at low revs + full throttle (only normal); it disappears at medium revs and comes back at high revs. So yes, this might be an indication of an early-closing disk.

You can try closing it 5° later but I would look at the inlet tract length first. If you can shorten that, you may solve the high-rev blow-back without the need for a late-closing disk. That would make setting the carburation a lot easier and it would also lower the inertia of the mixture column in the inlet tract, which in turn would make it easier to get this column up to speed; especially important when you have to use a small-bore carburetter.

Thanks for the incites into the inlet/carburation issues .......

[diesel pig]

O, and one more thing, TZ350. Fritz is German. I am a Dutchie and I spell my first name with an s .[/QUOTE]

Sorry Frits TZ has been taken out and shot for that.

In your work with powervalves how important is it to get the valve to conform to the piston? would a gap of 2 to 3mm ruin the effectiveness of the system?

[Frits Overmars]

Sorry Frits TZ has been taken out and shot for that.

That's a pity; you can do that only once. I would have suggested we call him TS350 for a week or so.

In your work with powervalves how important is it to get the valve to conform to the piston? would a gap of 2 to 3mm ruin the effectiveness of the system?

Depends on what type of valve you are talking about. When it is fully opened, it should be out of the way and leave a smooth port roof. When it is closed, it should be as close to the piston as possible if you want to benefit from a longer working stroke. 0.5 mm would already have an adverse effect, but getting it closer to the piston ring would be dangerous.
What the valve normally does, is disturb the outgoing exhaust pulse. Then the return pulse will also be weaker and it cannot do so much harm, pushing fresh mixture back into the crankcase. Usually a gap of 2 to 3 mm will sufficiently wreck the outgoing pulse's efficiency.

[Buckets4Me]

That's a pity; you can do that only once. I would have suggested we call him TS350 for a week or so.

he use to race a t250 with rd400 barrels (isn't the ts just an off road version of it ?)

so probably wouldn't worry him to much

[TZ350]

... I would have suggested we call him TS350 for a week or so ...

there wasn't a Suzuki TS350 but calling me TS250 would do, they were a trail bike, I loved them ...

[husaberg]

there wasn't a Suzuki TS350 but calling me TS250 would do, they were a trail bike, I loved them ...

T350 it is then (the Rambler or was it Rebel) the T250 was the Hustler the T500 was the Titan or Cobra.

Not one guess for the engine of the day.
I posted last week was so here it is.
The Christensen.
Which could be a Dutch Name or a Neverlandish I guess.

The BMEP is a little low but it is the 1964 the interesting features are the cylinder coating and the head design and ignition I was surprised to see in the same Mag how long style modern Reeds have been around as well.

It is 132cc and a Kart engine an oversize carbs so it is not Bucket legal.

For TZ

You can try closing it 5° later but I would look at the inlet tract length first. If you can shorten that, you may solve the high-rev blow-back without the need for a late-closing disk. That would make setting the carburation a lot easier and it would also lower the inertia of the mixture column in the inlet tract, which in turn would make it easier to get this column up to speed; especially important when you have to use a small-bore carburetter.

RG500 solution to short intake. This is what i was trying to explain last week.
Yow ling Had this on a Trademe thread

Attachment 249612 Attachment 249613

For Frits

the problem would have been far worse with double-walled light-alloy headers.

I do have to wonder what all the welding on the alloy headers is for because why wasn't it machined if it was single wall? Why would Honda do that?
I guess Jerry (Burgess) will be able to shed some light on this?

Attachment 249608Attachment 249609

[Frits Overmars]

.....I do have to wonder what all the welding on the alloy headers is for because why wasn't it machined if it was single wall? Why would Honda do that? I guess Jerry (Burgess) will be able to shed some light on this?

I couldn't say. Let's hope Jerry will find the time to enlighten us.

[husaberg]

I mentioned that for the new build. The motor would be a more modern design. Which should have a 35 RWHP potential and a wider power spread.
This below shows just how old the MB100/H100 design is. The year is 1974.

Attachment 249616

I love the motor don't get me wrong. It was the best engine available in the 90's.

The new motor will be based on newer generation 1990's technology that's all.

Unfortunately the rider will have less than 1% of the talent than the original rider of the bike in the drawing


Attachment 249617

[husaberg]

I couldn't say. Let's hope Jerry will find the time to enlighten us.

Wob mentioned he was going to ask Pete Benson

I can't see why Honda would inject the water but I can't explain there radiator or the weird header design or there description.That I posted here.
From what i understad the origional Fleck papers were pure injection I whish I could find a copy of them.

http://http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/86554-ESE-s-works-engine-tuner?p=1130173462#post1130173462

Do you or anyone know anyone who could De-sighfer this?
It would seem to that it was annoying translated from English to (I guess Italian)

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ousgsIbW7WY

I do however believe it (water injection) is a bit of a lame duck. As they results could be achieved better by adjusting the pipe length or volume with either a Atac valve and herp chamber or a adjustable length header design.
Which it what Wob said at the start nearly.

[Grumph]

Just to make some of you think, can i point out that we're not operating under FIM rules here.....
If you're already running a watercooled motor thee's nothing stopping you injecting ( maybe via a powerjet ) coolant into the inlet stream...
It's just cooling internally.....right ? No alcohol based fuel additives or coolants of course....

[FastFred]

I would have suggested we call him TS350 for a week or so.

What about about renaming TeeZee ... SS350 ...

SS to signify membership of the amateur tuners club and 350 for relative achievement with anything under a 100 being Junior status.

[F5 Dave]

Wasn't that a Harley, erm 'Fred'

[husaberg]

Wasn't that a Harley, erm 'Fred'

The only thing Harley on the SS350 was the badge and the crap styling.
Attachment 249685
The SS is penance for the German Fritz/Frits mistake isn't it.
Putting TZ in the same sentence with SS unspoken would be cruel and unusual surely.

Attachment 249687

I am the industry's tuner.What do you guys know I have a Vespa and a lot of issues with any ideas of mine being questioned.I work in the industry etc

On a completely unrelated mater maybe someone should post a on-board video of both Mt Welly and of the Wellington track to show Frits what sort of tracks you guys are racing on.

[Frits Overmars]

.....From what i understad the origional Fleck papers were pure injection I whish I could find a copy of them.

I've got it, and some more papers from 'Prof Bob' as he was called in the GP-team. Robert Fleck too used a simple total-loss direct injection system.
Alas, these papers are at my home and I am not, and I won't be for some time.

Do you or anyone know anyone who could De-sighfer this? It would seem to that it was annoying translated from English to (I guess Italian)
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ousgsIbW7WY

Translating it back into English would mean removing the Spanish(!) voice that's talking through the original comment. I have enough Spanish, and some English as well, but this two-tongue Spanglish makes it hard to decipher. Anyway, it says there is water injected into the pipes; nothing new.

I do however believe it (water injection) is a bit of a lame duck. As they results could be achieved better by adjusting the pipe length or volume with either a Atac valve and herp chamber or a adjustable length header design.

Not quite. Adjusting pipe or header lengths would require more mechanics and a large battery to drive the servo; Dutch double sidecar-world champ Egbert Streuer tried sliding end cones in his four pipes. As it turned out, over the entire GP-season there was only one corner (the hairpin at La source, Franchorcamps, Belgium) where it was a real advantage, so he dumped the whole package.

Exhaust power valves, if they're really good, shorten the exhaust timing, which costs torque because for true resonance you need an effective exhaust opening (and closing) period of 180 crank degrees.
Everyday exhaust power valves spoil the primary exhaust pulse, resulting in a weaker return pulse that won't do much harm, but not much good either.
Atac chambers lower the resonance frequency of the exhaust system, but a great deal of the return pulse energy is wasted in raising the pressure in the Atac chamber instead of the pressure in the cylinder.
The best way out of all of this would be a continuously variable transmission and I would have developed one a long time ago if only it had been allowed in GP racing...

On a completely unrelated mater maybe someone should post a on-board video of both Mt Welly and of the Wellington track to show Frits what sort of tracks you guys are racing on.

I would appreciate that.

[husaberg]

I've got it, and some more papers from 'Prof Bob' as he was called in the GP-team. Robert Fleck too used a simple total-loss direct injection system. Alas, these papers are at my home and I am not, and I won't be for some time.
Translating it back into English would mean removing the Spanish(!) voice that's talking through the original comment. My Spanish would be up to it, and my English as well, but this two-tongue Spanglish makes it hard to decipher. Anyway, it says there is water injected into the pipes; nothing new.
Not quite. Adjusting pipe or header lengths would require more mechanics and a large battery to drive the servo; Dutch double sidecar-world champ Egbert Streuer tried sliding end cones in his four pipes. As it turned out, over the entire GP-season there was only one corner (the hairpin at La source, Franchorcamps, Belgium) where is was a real advantage so he dumped the whole package.

Exhaust power valves, if they're really good, shorten the exhaust timing, which costs torque because for true resonance you need an effective exhaust opening (and closing) period of 180 crank degrees.
Everyday exhaust power valves spoil the primary exhaust pulse, resulting in a weaker return pulse that won't do much harm, but not much good either. Atac chambers lower the resonance frequency of the exhaust system, but a great deal of the return pulse energy is wasted in raising the pressure in the Atac chamber instead of the pressure in the cylinder.
The best way out of all of this would be a continuously variable transmission and I would have developed one a long time ago if only it had been allowed in GP racing...
I would appreciate that.

Great stuff Frits
Re ajustable pipes
I know Cagiva ran a Hydraulic system and I think electric is to slow and to thirsty for power.
I also know that Cagiva ran the power valve (YAMAHA Style I guess) and Atac valve on the Randy Mamola bike.

I am stuck with a RC valve but it will be super easy for Wob to modify for my debored engine.

Attachment 249692

I planed at a later stage to use a Greeves (woolley) style labryrinth seals with piston rings to seal the pipes.

When the Greeves Silverstone was first introduced it was recommended that the crank seals were changed after every meeting, as the wear rate was so high on the racing engine. The modern solution is to use Teflon coated oil seals. Before the times of Teflon coatings, Brian Woolley came up with an answer that not only worked but increased the time between servicing. His method entailed the use of Honda C50 piston rings to form labyrinth seals in place of the rubber seals. The rings were held in position by a steel sleeve which was a press fit into the crankcase, running in a slotted alloy carrier that rotated with the crank, the rings stopping any gas flow much in the same way that they do on the piston. As the seals on the standard 9E cases are smaller than the Greeves cases this modification may be a difficult one to embody without resorting to machining the seal housings, but for someone with machining know how it may be a feasible project. On the drive side the labyrinth seal can be located between the two bearings, the slotted carrier doubling as the bearing spacer.

My idea was compressed air. Easily rechargable light nice and simple, super fast and a little goes along way.
I planed to run the Water injection the same way and use excess air in the pipes to reheat it them.
maybe a little fuel if there wasn't enough in the pipes to work it what do you think.I also envisaged using air/electric to trigger the Atac