ESE's works engine tuner

[husaberg]

Its not every day I agree with Kickaha about 4-Strokes, but what he said could be true .....

Shame he is a little less forthcoming with his official acceptance of the 2 vs 4 "old fat buggers challenge at Greymouth Street races 2012."*
Maybe suzuki don't have a large enough stock of valves after all.
I hear from reliable sources Suzuki actually decreased production of valves after kickaha stopped racing the GN.
Shit kicka, you will only need ...lets see is it 4 races plus one practice, So @ 2 valves per race time four races.plus 2 for practice.... That's only 10 valves, baring any unexpected blowups i guess.

What will side of the bet will be.er.... I will put a GN125 tank on my bike.
If anyone asks why (No doubt they will for f sakes) I would put such an ugly chopper tank on a race bike.
I will tell them without laughing (too much) that its because "GN125s peanut tanks are f...ing Awesome."


*Old fat buggers challenge only applies to Warwick and the old Gn125

[Grumph]

Grumph maybe they they could post something enlightening themselves ... by any chance, do you see yourself as a researcher too?

Shit no...I'm just an old bastard who's been building winning motors for over 40 years...I've met the researchers and listened carefully too
Some were worth listening to, some off in their own dream worlds.Blair was good - on 4 strokes.....
I've read a lot of papers and tend to remember the relevant bits but finding them on the net and posting them....sorry, too much work on here.

Some 4 stroke work has relevance to this 2 stroke thread but fercrissake know your history of 4 stroke inlet development before trying to adopt inappropriate techniques to 2 strokes.

The telescopic inlet trumpets on injected motors you will note are pretty constant ID - which is the ID of the inlet port at the head.

[TZ350]

The big picture is, it did clean up a resonant hole created by a bit of megaphonitis a common problem so its a technique that might be useful on another day and the idea may have possibilities in other ways too.

Am I the lone voice here who says you're not lengthening the inlet tract with that huge carb extension ? Factories deliberately make the OD of the bellmouth area - where a hose to an aircleaner would attatch, and where your extension attatches - large enough to avoid any entry flow effects when there is a hose or similar on there. If your bellmouth was the same ID as the carb bore then yes you're lengthening the tract....you're not !

What you are doing as has already been said is adding a short resonant chamber onto the entry of the carb. Yes, a heimholtz resonator.

I think you are the lone voice that’s connecting the inlet tract proper to the carb extension, I am not sure that I did that, in fact I deliberately avoided doing so.

I had an idea, did some tests and got a good result. In getting my head around what was happening, the components of the inlet system and the relationship between them (hadn't realy had to think about the bit in front of the carb before) I was being a little cautious as I suspected there was a bit more to the story and only used the term "inlet" and that was because it’s not the exhaust.

The carb extension is part of the inlet and later with some thought I could see how it was possibly acting as a secondary resonant system. But thanks for you’re input and comment from others because that has clarified it for me and no doubt other readers too.

Now, I would like to see if this could be tuned to work with the inlet tract and force, ram or deliver (whatever word you want to use) more mixture.

Another thing I would like to try is extending the “inlet tract” and try the moving hole idea, there are a few learned people who think it may have possibilities so its worth a try. I will use EngMod2T to simulate it first of course, quicker and cheaper.

I am a bit of a newbe and only making a lowly 230 hp per litre, (Speedpro is making 300) considering the motors origins, thats respectable. The only difference between them and bigger engines is probably the cost and the fact we mostly do it all for ourselves learning as we go.

Shoot down merchants and holier than thous are two a penny on the net but a person who will impart real knowledge in an open way is absolute gold and this is the thread for them.

Grumph you sound like you know what you’re on about, I would love to see some posts about your own projects and ideas or techniques that you think are valuable.

[TerraRoot]

Shoot down merchants and holier than thous are two a penny on the net but a person who will impart real knowledge in an open way is absolute gold and this is the thread for them.

a-fucking-men

[husaberg]

Queens University Belfast or QUB

Most of us have heard of it.
Home of Prof Fleck and the Late Prof Blair.
The Irish sure do love there road racing.
Just when i thought i had it cracked on posting the attachments it goes and puts them all in reverse order.
It also looks like Tony Foale was beaten to the spine frame (he seems to claim to have had the idea stolen from Waddon) as well, by one Colin Seeley interestingly he was the team boss for the Norton Rotary for a while at least.As above.
He also manufactured the most beautiful Seeley G50 and made quite a few frames including the frame for the original Ducati V twin racers they continued to use his elegant chain adjusters for a number of years.

[Kickaha]

It also looks like Tony Foale was beaten to the spine frame (he seems to claim to have had the idea stolen from Waddon) as well, by one Colin Seeley interestingly he was the team boss for the Norton Rotary for a while at least.As above.
He also manufactured the most beautiful Seeley G50 and made quite a few frames including the frame for the original Ducati V twin racers they continued to use his elegant chain adjusters for a number of years.

Colin Seeley will be over here fo the Puke Classic festival this year, get him to knock one up for the bucket while he's visiting

[husaberg]

As you remember the original Yamaha engines supplied to the privateers were non big bank ROC had one for a number of years at least 3 years after the works boys all had them Harris finally got one.

I did some research into why Doohan went back to the screamer engine it appears that when they first came out they were indeed faster if not less powerful than the Screamer.
To get an acceptable level of vibration with the big bang Honda added a much heavier balance shaft to their single crank V4.
The bike sounded slower and even felt slower to Doohan, but the lap times were faster as it was much kinder on the tires and more user friendly.

Latter when it was felt that some more power would be an advantage and more importantly the tire technology had evolved and caught up with the power outputs. Not to mention the power delivery that was soften by the low lead fuels then required They again tried the screamer motor Doohan liked it. But the other factory rider Caparossi was thrown off after a couple of laps.
As most of his teammates and Competitors by that stage hadn't rode a screamer, it was a major physiological advantage for Doohan as well.

The interesting thing is that they kept the heavier Balance shafts. As it turned better with it in. Something to do with the counter rotating balance shaft cancelling out to some extent the Gyroscopic forces of the crank. I think it was less wheelie prone too.
He also probably by this stage getting a bit bored as well.

Re kickaha above

Colin Seeley will be over here fo the Puke Classic festival this year, get him to knock one up for the bucket while he's visiting

Take a pic of your bike with you and ask him what he thinks of your peanut tank

Forgot to mention as Kickaha is aware he was the British sidecar Champion as well. So no doubt he will have kichaha cleaning his shoes and thus forth.

The last attachment is a good case of how we should always measure at least twice (more for me) and cut once.

[TZ350]

A bit of trivia.

There was another company before Buckleys in the nuclear science business here in NZ called ANAC, they were over the road from St Lukes in Auckland. Unfortunately they folded during the 30% interest on overdrafts era of Muldoons clever fiscal management.

Bill B used to do the engineering for them. Any way there was a character working at ANAC called George. George is very clever and was their problem solver. There was no tec problem that George couldn’t find a solution to, he was a very valuable man and worked as a subcontractor to them.

George’s interest was alternative energy and automotive power from wood gas. He drove a small truck with a gasifier on it, something he made himself. He came from out west and the truck proved very reliable but not quick to start, after work he would have to fire the burner up before getting washed and changed, by the time he clocked out it was ready to go.

Now working in overalls and driving a gasified ute made from an old car was something that some of the social climbing status conscious elements in management from academia struggled to relate to and they were sometimes a bit offhand with George.

Now the thing that used to make me laugh was that occasionally management would piss George right off. And when he felt particularly offended he would not collect his pay for 3 or 4 months, letting it mount up.

Now the management enjoyed a table in the smoko room in a prime location right in front of a large window. After 3-4 months of letting his pay accumulate George would arrive in his Rolls Royce at morning tea time, roll right up to the window and toot his horn. At which point management knew they had to scramble to find his back pay, which usually had amounted to a tidy sum by then.

Geroge thought it paid to remind the suckup elements in management what he was worth occasionally.

Anyway, made me laugh, sitting at smoko and seeing the look on their faces, the Roller at the window and George tooting the horn …. the shop floor had a bit of a giggle.

[TZ350]

Because I was ask too...

Attachment 254139 Attachment 254140

Original 16hp run from a year or so ago (red line) and the resonant inlet extension (blue line). Hole uncovered at 8.5K.

[TZ350]

Making progress

Attachment 254142

Measuring the squish clearance with a depth mike.

Attachment 254143

The tape is to allow for the taper on the piston and give the chuck jaws something to grip. Skimming 0.25mm from the piston crown to set the squish and comp ratio (dished piston). The saddle is a bit sloopy and I had a woopsy when the tool was draged in and shit the piston.

Attachment 254141

Ohoo well, allways wanted to use flat tops so in with a piston from a 93 YZ125.

Attachment 254144

Skimmed a bit out of the head and got the clearance volume to 9.0cc spot on.

[jasonu]

Making progress

Attachment 254142

Measuring the squish clearance with a depth mike.

Attachment 254143

The tape is to allow for the taper on the piston and give the chuck jaws something to grip. Skimming 0.25mm from the piston crown to set the squish and comp ratio (dished piston). The saddle is a bit sloopy and I had a woopsy when the tool was draged in and shit the piston.

Attachment 254141

Ohoo well, allways wanted to use flat tops so in with a piston from a 93 YZ125.

Attachment 254144

Skimmed a bit out of the head and got the clearance volume to 9.0cc spot on.

Why did you machine both the piston and head when you could have got the required results by machining the head only? If you machine this piston you will be forced into machining every subsequent piston.
If the piston is being machined for profile reasons please disregard the above question.

[husaberg]

Most of us here in the South Island would have seen and heard this unique New Zealand Home brewed special
(Both the frequency and the amplitude are pretty unforgettable)

But i guess it might be interesting to the northerners.

George Begg's factory/Workshop must have been an exciting place to be after hours what with the construction of the F5000 cars and Burt Munro dropping in to borrow the use of equipment and materials and with specials such as this.

For those who didn't get to meet George he was a larger than life character himself (literally and figuratively)who didn't mind a bit of good natured ribbing
Even when he moved to Australia he rarely missed an Cams meeting.

Sadly missed.

[TZ350]

Why did you machine both the piston and head when you could have got the required results by machining the head only? If you machine this piston you will be forced into machining every subsequent piston.
If the piston is being machined for profile reasons please disregard the above question.

Was machining the 1990 KX125 dished (3cc) piston to get the squish (width) I wanted and at the same time reduce the combustion volume as it had become hard to realistically take much more off the head. Anyway I ruined the piston so went to a flat top that meant I now had to open up the combustion chamber in the head. I will stick with 1993 YZ125 flat tops now.

Why did I use those pistons, I had them in my junk box of goodies, and replacements are fairly available of Ebay.

[TZ350]

EngMod2T

Attachment 254209

After getting that interesting result from the inlet with a hole that changed the resonant behaviour of the FXR's inlet system and overcame a megaphoneits problem I thought I should look at a ram tube for my 2-stroke engine.

Attachment 254206

Ram Tube on the carb.

Attachment 254207

I was hoping for more down low drive. Varing results with different lengths from 750 to 875 long, most make a little more top end but worse down low, the down low I think I can cure with the "hole" idea. But at an overall length of 1m for the inlet system its a bit unwieldy for little gain.

Attachment 254205

I still need some sort of wind protection or still air box on my sticking out the side carb and in the past I had tried an air filter arrangement from a VW but it cost me a hp or so at the top end. But any way I thought I would simulate it as a short ram tube. At 300mm it showed the same results as the VW housing did on the dyno but as I shortened it it improved.

Attachment 254204

A ram tube at 150x75mm shows a worthwhile topend power gain with no loss of torque down low. It will be interesting to see if this can be realised on the dyno.

[husaberg]

I still need some sort of wind protection or still air box on my sticking out the side carb and in the past I had tried an air filter arrangement from a VW but it cost me a hp or so at the top end. But any way I thought I would simulate it as a short ram tube. At 300mm it showed the same results as the VW housing did on the dyno but as I shortened it it improved.

Had you considered using something like this Below.
The carb seems tucked out of the way it has one of those water pumps Frits seem to like. It also has one of those Power valve thingies that seem to spread the power out a wee bit. It has a 6 speed gearbox was built in the last 20 years and most importantly is a Honda. I hear there is one at Tauranga.
It needs a bit of work mind you the Crank pokes to far up and to far down as well, The piston seems a little er...big as well. Oh well it can be fixed i guess.
As the RS frames seem to be a bit thin on the ground i am hoping it will fit in one of these. it should just about cram in there with a little persuasion