4x4's and my suggestion

**boomer** · 13th August 2005, 18:15

I'll keep an eye out for you when i'm not on the bike but in the hilux.

**Phurrball** · 13th August 2005, 18:28

An interesting piece of analysis on the issue is the book:

"High and Mighty: SUVs--The World's Most Dangerous Vehicles and How They Got That Way" by Keith Bradsher.

Written from the perspective of the American market and regulatory regime, but the safety aspects are applicable to NZ. The author is a motoring journalist and goes into detailed analysis of many aspects of the so-called 'SUVs'.

Motu inadvertently alludes to the 'arms race' on the road, where people in smaller vehicles can't see, and feel more vulnerable, and so change up to ever larger (often SUV) vehicles.

Trouble is that large 4WDs are heavy, and worst of all have bumpers [often bull-bars] and main vehicle mass above the door sill height of most cars. Super efficient at maximum intrusion into the passenger compartment and maximum occupant harm in a collision. This has only come to the fore in the minds of manufacturers in very recent times, and a few have taken steps to minimise this issue. The millions of 'SUVs' on the world's roads today will be there for some time posing this danger to other road users. The biggest problem in NZ seems to be that we are a dumping ground for Japan's unwanted 4WDs, which now fill our roads. [space constraints apparently ended the fad in Japan].

I appreciate that for some ground clearance and towing capacity are a necessity for some, but for most who just want 4WD grip 'when the going gets rough' [Read - ski field access road, minor snowfall, slightly dodgy gravel road] what's wrong with a 4WD CAR? All the grip of 4WD and none of the handling/safety disadvantages of a full sized ‘urban assault vehicle’. No need to have a vehicle with abilities that grossly exceed the tasks required of it is there? Shame the marketeers convinced us otherwise…

**Motu** · 13th August 2005, 19:46

Originally Posted by Phurrball

No need to have a vehicle with abilities that grossly exceed the tasks required of it is there? Shame the marketeers convinced us otherwise…

I agree - ban sports bikes!

**Timber020** · 14th August 2005, 11:00

Should be licensing for 4wd owners.Mine is bigger than most on the road and it cant be driven by your average soccer mum or small cock muppet. (I havent completely worked out which I am yet.) I use low ratio about 3 times a week, yet I still debate whether having such an impractical and potentially dangerous vehicle is worth it.

Licensing and a bigger tax as they probably contribute more to peoples injuries in other cars in 2 vehicle collisions, after all bikes have to pay more acc

**Sniper** · 14th August 2005, 11:51

I think from the veiw points Im getting either no one gets my drift or this can be a really sore issue for some. Because I ride a sports bike does not mean I attempt to set land speed records nor attempt to get my knee down on corners.

Ask anyone from the track day yesterday. Im not the best rider nor do I attest to being or want to be. My veiw point arrived from these tossers that wish to drive 4 wheel drives as an image or to prove a point. Read into my post and you can see on 2 occasions that I did not imply it to all 4x4's just that pricks that own the roads in them.

I take nor meant any offence to anyone over what they drive so I dont really care if its not in your interest to read the post that was MY opinion and is not going to mean Im going to approach parliment with a bill to HT 4 wheel drives nor run around with a petition to ban them either.

As for the sportsbikes comment, fuck it, I ride a 250 CBR. I hardly class it as a sports bike. I dont apologise to those of you who took this to heart, it is my opinin and mine only.

**Sniper** · 14th August 2005, 11:53

Originally Posted by boomer

I'll keep an eye out for you when i'm not on the bike but in the hilux.

People like you Im concerned about

**onearmedbandit** · 14th August 2005, 12:06

Ha, you would have loved what was parked in my driveway when you came around yesterday morning then Sniper!! And to top it off, it hardly ever goes off road and my Japanese wife uses it on weekends!! But come on, its only because they stand out so much that most people highlight them as being a problem. Sure you got cut off by a 4x4, so blame it on being a 4x4. You get cut off by a car, and you blame it on the driver. Same with asian drivers, for those that have never travelled internationally you will be quite suprised at the standard of driving in these countries. However, our different laws here and the slackness of our licensening laws means that these drivers can drive here without fully understanding our backwards laws. And another point to ponder, how many times have you been cut off or whatever by a European driver and screamed 'fucking German drivers'? Never. But I'm sure at some stage a european tourist or immigrant has done this, but you can't identify their enthenticity, unlike people of Asian descent.

Stu, this was in no way an attack on you, I realise it's your own opinion. But likewise I just wanted to get my opinion across.

**Sniper** · 14th August 2005, 13:57

OAB, you make a good point. Its really on the drivers and not the type of vehicles is it?
Cheers mate

**boomer** · 14th August 2005, 14:59

Originally Posted by Sniper

People like you Im concerned about

Thanks mum

**Phurrball** · 14th August 2005, 18:19

Originally Posted by Motu

I agree - ban sports bikes!

I'd a feeling you'd say that Motu!

Moot point being that sportbike riders are largely a danger to themselves; city drivers in 4 x 4s are a potential danger to anyone smaller than themselves. The same logic would legitimately extend to banning high-powered cars etc...

The debate draws ever closer to where the balance is between civil liberties and safety...Where is the line to be drawn?

**Mr Skid** · 14th August 2005, 18:45

If we follow the logic that 4x4's should require an extra licence due to their unique handling properties and/or shouldn't be used for anything other than off road use, where does that leave dual sport bikes?

Should I have to get a special endorsement to run a 21" front wheel?

**oscar the cat** · 14th August 2005, 18:47

yes i drive a 4x4 yes i needed a vechical that could tow caravans ( i had a rental bussiness on waiheke island ) yes i have been off roading even took a weekend off the island to do course down clevedon way

do i want to get rid of it just because i dont use the full potential every do

no way !!!!!!

same as i dont plan on using my bike every day

hope this dont make me a bad driver

**raster** · 14th August 2005, 19:04

4x4's are not only a danger to others when driven badly, when they fall over if the roof doesn't cave in, all the crap floating around in the back will bite them in the bum/head, not to mention the crap that comes in the windows.
Also they don't have crumple zones the can cause severe injury to the occupents during impact.

Cousins of ours got badly hurt in a 4x4 rollover near Nelson.

Most 4x4 rollovers happen in the first 6 months of ownership.

I have a 4x4, not very good for offroad with less then 100MM ground clearance, a Dachshund would get further.

**DEATH_INC.** · 14th August 2005, 19:17

I ride a sport bike and drive an UAV, so f****g watch out or I'll speed and kill the lot of you or I'll bust up your shit in the parking lot and on the streets.
GET BENT!

**raster** · 14th August 2005, 19:54

Originally Posted by DEATH_INC.

I ride a sport bike and drive an UAV, so f****g watch out or I'll speed and kill the lot of you or I'll bust up your shit in the parking lot and on the streets.
GET BENT!

UAV? Don't know that one, do I need to be worried about these.